Vic Williams
Vic Williams

Sadly poaching will continue no matter what we do, the only way I can see to reduce it is to make it non profitable and if to do this we have to legalise the selling of horn, ivory and tusks then so be it, farmed elephant, farmed rhino, farmed tiger etc but if we have to do it humanly, with controls on animal welfare as we have in food animals and license and police these farms, however managing this legalised trade would present further issues, as soon as supply of parts from legal sources...

Sadly poaching will continue no matter what we do, the only way I can see to reduce it is to make it non profitable and if to do this we have to legalise the selling of horn, ivory and tusks then so be it, farmed elephant, farmed rhino, farmed tiger etc but if we have to do it humanly, with controls on animal welfare as we have in food animals and license and police these farms, however managing this legalised trade would present further issues, as soon as supply of parts from legal sources is outstripped by demand or consumer pricing went above what could be obtained through illegal methods, then poaching will be resorted to fill the gap and we are back where we started. We have already seen when controls are implemented an increase in poaching occurs. We have seen how even with CITES controls things have been gotten round, exploited or simply ignored, would it be possible to enforce a legalised version, would it be controllable and not exploited by corrupt officials and governments, who would set the limits and would the legal trade pay to protect and stop the illegal one? With ivory smuggling routes now so common and so obscure, with governments and officials turning a blind eye or indeed on the payroll, with the ever increasing demand from the Far East and China for ivory and parts for traditional medicine this problem will not be resolved, fund to bring the big business element to justice, fund to attack the end users, kill the head and the beast will crumble. Putting ever greater resource into stopping poaching on the ground will do little if the demand is still there, there a plenty of people willing to take the risk in the field to poach, but a far fewer at the top doing the buying, stop these people and the rest will slow but to do this it will need governments buy in, it will need global enforcing and it will need massive funding. As for end buyers those that buy the finished product they do not associate it with the slaughter, as with buyers of blood diamonds they only see the jewellery and not the death, slavery, murder and suffering that went to produce it.

Rob Lindner
Rob Lindner
  • Vic Williams

what bullshit it will only increase because there will always be poor people who want to make money by killing wildlife they cannot afford to raise themselves. It actually will increase their destruction by increasing the overall demand despite any drop in price. The only way to end it economically would be to end poverty. I say the only way to protect them is with sniper who shoot poachers on sight. Lots of snipers.

Judy Salerno
Judy Salerno
  • Vic Williams

Are you serious? That's just what we need, killing factories where we raise elephants for their ivory and feet, and oh, not to forget elephant hair bracelets, and then the rhino simply for it's horn. We don't even eat it, we use it for fertilizer....Makes a lot of sense huh? Sounds like you're trying to make sense out of insanity. Hopefully sir, you are in the minority.

Gabriella McGuire
Gabriella McGuire
  • Vic Williams

WHAAAAAT??? Nobody needs animal parts for ANY purpose! Kill the demand, not the animals. Stupid, stupid people!

Rian Geldenhuys
Rian Geldenhuys
  • Vic Williams

Vic, you see it wrong. The only way to cure an addict, is to cut off supply.

Michael Dougans
Michael Dougans
  • Vic Williams

Vic you are living in an absolute dream world....get a life and wake up to what you have just said. Read up on it and I am sure that you will change your opinion....unless you breed wild animals then you would have a vested interest????

Jane Martin
Jane Martin
  • Vic Williams

supply an addict his drug and he will continue to demand it in bigger quantities!

Valerie Marcelli
Valerie Marcelli
  • Vic Williams

@ Vic.... Do you mean how the cows in slaughterhouses are treated "Humanely"? And pigs, chickens, lamb and all the other animals that humans torture daily for their own greed & consumption? Sir, you need to come out of your cave a little often and inform yourself because your statement is ridiculous!!

Kerry Owens
Kerry Owens
  • Vic Williams

Vic Williams, that's just nuts! So if we can't beat 'em, join 'em? NO! What we ALL NEED TO DO IS START FIGHTING BACK!

Kerry Owens
Kerry Owens
  • Vic Williams

How about taking up collections to put a bounty on the heads of POACHERS? Then maybe we will see villagers turning them in.

Vic Williams
Vic Williams
  • Vic Williams

I would like to state that I live and work within a African National park and am directly involved in the fight against poaching, I see on a daily basis what the effects are and of course I signed the petition. However it is evident that despite all efforts from the dedicated teams that continue to fight against this seemly unending tide of poaching we are now experiencing that something new has to be tried, for it is so obvious that we are losing our continued battle. The current increase...

I would like to state that I live and work within a African National park and am directly involved in the fight against poaching, I see on a daily basis what the effects are and of course I signed the petition. However it is evident that despite all efforts from the dedicated teams that continue to fight against this seemly unending tide of poaching we are now experiencing that something new has to be tried, for it is so obvious that we are losing our continued battle. The current increase in poaching against both elephant and Rhino (of course poaching has generally increase across the board but I'll highlight these to here as they are the most relevant to this cause) is driven by a huge increase in demand for tusk and horn, where there is a demand the market, for that is what this is, will endeavour to supply and that is exactly what we are seeing. Something new has to be tried to stop the exploitation of the wild animals and if that means farming so be it. contd below.

Vic Williams
Vic Williams
  • Vic Williams

The demand is there and like everything that has a demand and is banned it goes to organised crime similar to the drugs market, the guys doing the poaching are but a small link in this sad chain and are expendable by those higher up, the poacher will get a fraction of the value and it is in some way understandable that by offering what is to them a 3 month wage to kill one animal that they take that risk to feed their family, but capturing the local guy will not solve the problem, they will...

The demand is there and like everything that has a demand and is banned it goes to organised crime similar to the drugs market, the guys doing the poaching are but a small link in this sad chain and are expendable by those higher up, the poacher will get a fraction of the value and it is in some way understandable that by offering what is to them a 3 month wage to kill one animal that they take that risk to feed their family, but capturing the local guy will not solve the problem, they will and are replaced by others, of other nationalities willing to risk all for what they see as easy money, exactly the same as the drug cartels use little guys to do their dirty work. Now it is ok to say we need to educate those that do the end buying, but this will take a lot of time, something which we just do not have, Rhino's will be extinct in the wild long before those that buy are persuaded not to if ever they are, so something else has to be done. Rhino horns can be harvested contd below

Vic Williams
Vic Williams
  • Vic Williams

and sold legitimately, the horn regrows in about 3 year, this is in fact being tried already, elephant ivory is harder to farm, the animals will not regrow them and without their tusks they will have difficulty surviving in truly wild conditions, but that doesn't mean we cant investigate it as an option. It is a sad prospect that any such thing needs to be considered, but I have spoken to many people in the field and meeting the supply through other means than poaching is definately a...

and sold legitimately, the horn regrows in about 3 year, this is in fact being tried already, elephant ivory is harder to farm, the animals will not regrow them and without their tusks they will have difficulty surviving in truly wild conditions, but that doesn't mean we cant investigate it as an option. It is a sad prospect that any such thing needs to be considered, but I have spoken to many people in the field and meeting the supply through other means than poaching is definately a possibility, not one that anyone relishes granted but if something drastic is not done soon it will be to late anyway. The levels of organised crime behind ivory and Rhino horn now is extreme, it involves serious gangs from many countries, it involves armed rebel gangs and it is becoming a real war where game scouts and conservationists are dying, the crime gangs corrupt officials, they bribe and threaten at all levels, the swap automatic weapons for tusks contd below

Vic Williams
Vic Williams
  • Vic Williams

and because of the massive rewards they receive are better financed than the Government and agencies involved. African Governments have limited funds and they would have a difficult time explaining spending a huge percentage of these on wildlife protection ahead of things like roads and hospitals to there populous's. Please do not think we have given up the fight we have not, like drug enforcement agencies we need to find alternative ways to try and deal with the situation, and that is all I...

and because of the massive rewards they receive are better financed than the Government and agencies involved. African Governments have limited funds and they would have a difficult time explaining spending a huge percentage of these on wildlife protection ahead of things like roads and hospitals to there populous's. Please do not think we have given up the fight we have not, like drug enforcement agencies we need to find alternative ways to try and deal with the situation, and that is all I am suggesting, think differently and see if it works, for what is happening now isn't. Poaching is complex, it happens on many different levels and there is no single answer, CITIES saying ban the trade of animals is laudable but it does not offer a way to deal with the situation, saying Government should ban all imports is like saying Governments should ban the illegal import of Opium based drugs, they do and still they get through, same will happen here contd below

Vic Williams
Vic Williams
  • Vic Williams

a legal, controlled and regulated trade may be the only solution to this, no body wants to see it happen, no body is suggesting it is ideal but it might just stop the extinction in the wild. For those at home feeling strongly about this please understand this is not suggested lightly, seeing the consequences of elephant poaching close up is sickening, no matter how many time you see it as well, and I see it far to often.Whether farming is solution or not alternatives to what is happening now...

a legal, controlled and regulated trade may be the only solution to this, no body wants to see it happen, no body is suggesting it is ideal but it might just stop the extinction in the wild. For those at home feeling strongly about this please understand this is not suggested lightly, seeing the consequences of elephant poaching close up is sickening, no matter how many time you see it as well, and I see it far to often.Whether farming is solution or not alternatives to what is happening now have to be explored fully, make poaching economically pointless rather than trying to beat it on the ground might just be a better way, it might not, but lets talk it though, see if it is workable, see if there is an alternative, try everything and anything before it's too late. help the guys on the ground in other ways too, for we are now facing seriously armed organised criminals who through the shoot to kill have nothing to lose by shooting first. contd below

Rian Geldenhuys
Rian Geldenhuys
  • Vic Williams

What needs to be tried, is that Denel gets its ass in gear and get the Seeker UAV's flying again, with Oryx'es on standby to react to suspicious activity. That is the "something else" we should try.

Gunnel Söderback
Gunnel Söderback
  • Vic Williams

There are already "farms" of tigers etc. in China (maybe elsewhere). Maybe you can guess how the conditions for animals are on these "farms".

Tracy Burnley
Tracy Burnley
  • Vic Williams

Vic Ivory trade has been tried an is a complete failure. Elephants are being slaughtered by the 100's. These are the closest parallel to the rhino and are being slaughtered for their tusks in ever increasing numbers, so there is no guess work to be done and nothing to investigate. How you can even make a statement like your "humane" one is beyond reason so I will not even justify that one with comment. Please use your own brain and look at this as far more than a supply and demand...

Vic Ivory trade has been tried an is a complete failure. Elephants are being slaughtered by the 100's. These are the closest parallel to the rhino and are being slaughtered for their tusks in ever increasing numbers, so there is no guess work to be done and nothing to investigate. How you can even make a statement like your "humane" one is beyond reason so I will not even justify that one with comment. Please use your own brain and look at this as far more than a supply and demand argument. You even made points against yourself in the small scan I did of your follow up posts. The rhino so not have the populations to survive if people either try to push the supply and demand argument out of greed or make statements to support it without thought or investigation. There are tons of legitimate studies out there that prove that this is far more deep of a subject. Both WWF and TRAFFIC are fighting heavily against this idea. I believe they know more about these subjects than we do.

Dana Jones
Dana Jones

In one word, NO!

Carol Roberts
Carol Roberts

These poor defenseless animals need our voices - together we can make a difference. No trade (legal or illegal) should be allowed on any animals. Poachers and their Poacher Mafia Kingpins must be put in an enclosure with wild animals, so they can smell and experience real fear and a slow untimely death.

Mary Lotts
Mary Lotts

It's time china gets with the program and stop the cruelty they inflict on so many animals because of their culture and beliefs.

John Salerno
John Salerno

I am so outraged even by the question, but of course, no is the morally right answer. CITES apparently is not worth much if they are letting these poacher get away with this. I also say no to Chinese Immigrants who come into the country for no other work assignment, what is their reason for work, do they put "poaching" in the "reason to work" box?

Charise Matthews
Charise Matthews

Anything illegal creates a HUGE demand and need!

Judy Salerno
Judy Salerno

Hell NO!

Elise Audiodoc
Elise Audiodoc

There no more ethics or humanity in this world! Animals have the same right to an existence as we do, with their body parts INTACT

Helen ChaVe
Helen ChaVe

Leave ALL animals alone - they are ALL precious! We do not need them to eat, wear or for entertainment. Farmed animals for human consumption suffer the same brutal deaths. Meat eaters conveniently forget that they are 'animal lovers' when they are shoving rotting flesh down their throats - gross! GO VEGAN - it's better for your health, the planet and of course, the animals.

Max Horvath
Max Horvath

My vote is an emphatic NO, other like minded voters comments already stated echo my reasons. What surprises me is the percentage of yes votes, indeed very sad...

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