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Vic Williams
Vic Williams

Sadly poaching will continue no matter what we do, the only way I can see to reduce it is to make it non profitable and if to do this we have to legalise the selling of horn, ivory and tusks then so be it, farmed elephant, farmed rhino, farmed tiger etc but if we have to do it humanly, with controls on animal welfare as we have in food animals and license and police these farms, however managing this legalised trade would present further issues, as soon as supply of parts from legal sources...

Sadly poaching will continue no matter what we do, the only way I can see to reduce it is to make it non profitable and if to do this we have to legalise the selling of horn, ivory and tusks then so be it, farmed elephant, farmed rhino, farmed tiger etc but if we have to do it humanly, with controls on animal welfare as we have in food animals and license and police these farms, however managing this legalised trade would present further issues, as soon as supply of parts from legal sources is outstripped by demand or consumer pricing went above what could be obtained through illegal methods, then poaching will be resorted to fill the gap and we are back where we started. We have already seen when controls are implemented an increase in poaching occurs. We have seen how even with CITES controls things have been gotten round, exploited or simply ignored, would it be possible to enforce a legalised version, would it be controllable and not exploited by corrupt officials and governments, who would set the limits and would the legal trade pay to protect and stop the illegal one? With ivory smuggling routes now so common and so obscure, with governments and officials turning a blind eye or indeed on the payroll, with the ever increasing demand from the Far East and China for ivory and parts for traditional medicine this problem will not be resolved, fund to bring the big business element to justice, fund to attack the end users, kill the head and the beast will crumble. Putting ever greater resource into stopping poaching on the ground will do little if the demand is still there, there a plenty of people willing to take the risk in the field to poach, but a far fewer at the top doing the buying, stop these people and the rest will slow but to do this it will need governments buy in, it will need global enforcing and it will need massive funding. As for end buyers those that buy the finished product they do not associate it with the slaughter, as with buyers of blood diamonds they only see the jewellery and not the death, slavery, murder and suffering that went to produce it.

Rob Lindner
Rob Lindner
  • Vic Williams

what bullshit it will only increase because there will always be poor people who want to make money by killing wildlife they cannot afford to raise themselves. It actually will increase their destruction by increasing the overall demand despite any drop in price. The only way to end it economically would be to end poverty. I say the only way to protect them is with sniper who shoot poachers on sight. Lots of snipers.

Judy Salerno
Judy Salerno
  • Vic Williams

Are you serious? That's just what we need, killing factories where we raise elephants for their ivory and feet, and oh, not to forget elephant hair bracelets, and then the rhino simply for it's horn. We don't even eat it, we use it for fertilizer....Makes a lot of sense huh? Sounds like you're trying to make sense out of insanity. Hopefully sir, you are in the minority.

Gabriella McGuire
Gabriella McGuire
  • Vic Williams

WHAAAAAT??? Nobody needs animal parts for ANY purpose! Kill the demand, not the animals. Stupid, stupid people!

Rian Geldenhuys
Rian Geldenhuys
  • Vic Williams

Vic, you see it wrong. The only way to cure an addict, is to cut off supply.

Michael Dougans
Michael Dougans
  • Vic Williams

Vic you are living in an absolute dream world....get a life and wake up to what you have just said. Read up on it and I am sure that you will change your opinion....unless you breed wild animals then you would have a vested interest????

Jane Martin
Jane Martin
  • Vic Williams

supply an addict his drug and he will continue to demand it in bigger quantities!

Valerie Marcelli
Valerie Marcelli
  • Vic Williams

@ Vic.... Do you mean how the cows in slaughterhouses are treated "Humanely"? And pigs, chickens, lamb and all the other animals that humans torture daily for their own greed & consumption? Sir, you need to come out of your cave a little often and inform yourself because your statement is ridiculous!!

Kerry Owens
Kerry Owens
  • Vic Williams

Vic Williams, that's just nuts! So if we can't beat 'em, join 'em? NO! What we ALL NEED TO DO IS START FIGHTING BACK!

Kerry Owens
Kerry Owens
  • Vic Williams

How about taking up collections to put a bounty on the heads of POACHERS? Then maybe we will see villagers turning them in.

Vic Williams
Vic Williams
  • Vic Williams

I would like to state that I live and work within a African National park and am directly involved in the fight against poaching, I see on a daily basis what the effects are and of course I signed the petition. However it is evident that despite all efforts from the dedicated teams that continue to fight against this seemly unending tide of poaching we are now experiencing that something new has to be tried, for it is so obvious that we are losing our continued battle. The current increase...

I would like to state that I live and work within a African National park and am directly involved in the fight against poaching, I see on a daily basis what the effects are and of course I signed the petition. However it is evident that despite all efforts from the dedicated teams that continue to fight against this seemly unending tide of poaching we are now experiencing that something new has to be tried, for it is so obvious that we are losing our continued battle. The current increase in poaching against both elephant and Rhino (of course poaching has generally increase across the board but I'll highlight these to here as they are the most relevant to this cause) is driven by a huge increase in demand for tusk and horn, where there is a demand the market, for that is what this is, will endeavour to supply and that is exactly what we are seeing. Something new has to be tried to stop the exploitation of the wild animals and if that means farming so be it. contd below.

Vic Williams
Vic Williams
  • Vic Williams

The demand is there and like everything that has a demand and is banned it goes to organised crime similar to the drugs market, the guys doing the poaching are but a small link in this sad chain and are expendable by those higher up, the poacher will get a fraction of the value and it is in some way understandable that by offering what is to them a 3 month wage to kill one animal that they take that risk to feed their family, but capturing the local guy will not solve the problem, they will...

The demand is there and like everything that has a demand and is banned it goes to organised crime similar to the drugs market, the guys doing the poaching are but a small link in this sad chain and are expendable by those higher up, the poacher will get a fraction of the value and it is in some way understandable that by offering what is to them a 3 month wage to kill one animal that they take that risk to feed their family, but capturing the local guy will not solve the problem, they will and are replaced by others, of other nationalities willing to risk all for what they see as easy money, exactly the same as the drug cartels use little guys to do their dirty work. Now it is ok to say we need to educate those that do the end buying, but this will take a lot of time, something which we just do not have, Rhino's will be extinct in the wild long before those that buy are persuaded not to if ever they are, so something else has to be done. Rhino horns can be harvested contd below

Vic Williams
Vic Williams
  • Vic Williams

and sold legitimately, the horn regrows in about 3 year, this is in fact being tried already, elephant ivory is harder to farm, the animals will not regrow them and without their tusks they will have difficulty surviving in truly wild conditions, but that doesn't mean we cant investigate it as an option. It is a sad prospect that any such thing needs to be considered, but I have spoken to many people in the field and meeting the supply through other means than poaching is definately a...

and sold legitimately, the horn regrows in about 3 year, this is in fact being tried already, elephant ivory is harder to farm, the animals will not regrow them and without their tusks they will have difficulty surviving in truly wild conditions, but that doesn't mean we cant investigate it as an option. It is a sad prospect that any such thing needs to be considered, but I have spoken to many people in the field and meeting the supply through other means than poaching is definately a possibility, not one that anyone relishes granted but if something drastic is not done soon it will be to late anyway. The levels of organised crime behind ivory and Rhino horn now is extreme, it involves serious gangs from many countries, it involves armed rebel gangs and it is becoming a real war where game scouts and conservationists are dying, the crime gangs corrupt officials, they bribe and threaten at all levels, the swap automatic weapons for tusks contd below

Vic Williams
Vic Williams
  • Vic Williams

and because of the massive rewards they receive are better financed than the Government and agencies involved. African Governments have limited funds and they would have a difficult time explaining spending a huge percentage of these on wildlife protection ahead of things like roads and hospitals to there populous's. Please do not think we have given up the fight we have not, like drug enforcement agencies we need to find alternative ways to try and deal with the situation, and that is all I...

and because of the massive rewards they receive are better financed than the Government and agencies involved. African Governments have limited funds and they would have a difficult time explaining spending a huge percentage of these on wildlife protection ahead of things like roads and hospitals to there populous's. Please do not think we have given up the fight we have not, like drug enforcement agencies we need to find alternative ways to try and deal with the situation, and that is all I am suggesting, think differently and see if it works, for what is happening now isn't. Poaching is complex, it happens on many different levels and there is no single answer, CITIES saying ban the trade of animals is laudable but it does not offer a way to deal with the situation, saying Government should ban all imports is like saying Governments should ban the illegal import of Opium based drugs, they do and still they get through, same will happen here contd below

Vic Williams
Vic Williams
  • Vic Williams

a legal, controlled and regulated trade may be the only solution to this, no body wants to see it happen, no body is suggesting it is ideal but it might just stop the extinction in the wild. For those at home feeling strongly about this please understand this is not suggested lightly, seeing the consequences of elephant poaching close up is sickening, no matter how many time you see it as well, and I see it far to often.Whether farming is solution or not alternatives to what is happening now...

a legal, controlled and regulated trade may be the only solution to this, no body wants to see it happen, no body is suggesting it is ideal but it might just stop the extinction in the wild. For those at home feeling strongly about this please understand this is not suggested lightly, seeing the consequences of elephant poaching close up is sickening, no matter how many time you see it as well, and I see it far to often.Whether farming is solution or not alternatives to what is happening now have to be explored fully, make poaching economically pointless rather than trying to beat it on the ground might just be a better way, it might not, but lets talk it though, see if it is workable, see if there is an alternative, try everything and anything before it's too late. help the guys on the ground in other ways too, for we are now facing seriously armed organised criminals who through the shoot to kill have nothing to lose by shooting first. contd below

Rian Geldenhuys
Rian Geldenhuys
  • Vic Williams

What needs to be tried, is that Denel gets its ass in gear and get the Seeker UAV's flying again, with Oryx'es on standby to react to suspicious activity. That is the "something else" we should try.

Gunnel Söderback
Gunnel Söderback
  • Vic Williams

There are already "farms" of tigers etc. in China (maybe elsewhere). Maybe you can guess how the conditions for animals are on these "farms".

Tracy Burnley
Tracy Burnley
  • Vic Williams

Vic Ivory trade has been tried an is a complete failure. Elephants are being slaughtered by the 100's. These are the closest parallel to the rhino and are being slaughtered for their tusks in ever increasing numbers, so there is no guess work to be done and nothing to investigate. How you can even make a statement like your "humane" one is beyond reason so I will not even justify that one with comment. Please use your own brain and look at this as far more than a supply and demand...

Vic Ivory trade has been tried an is a complete failure. Elephants are being slaughtered by the 100's. These are the closest parallel to the rhino and are being slaughtered for their tusks in ever increasing numbers, so there is no guess work to be done and nothing to investigate. How you can even make a statement like your "humane" one is beyond reason so I will not even justify that one with comment. Please use your own brain and look at this as far more than a supply and demand argument. You even made points against yourself in the small scan I did of your follow up posts. The rhino so not have the populations to survive if people either try to push the supply and demand argument out of greed or make statements to support it without thought or investigation. There are tons of legitimate studies out there that prove that this is far more deep of a subject. Both WWF and TRAFFIC are fighting heavily against this idea. I believe they know more about these subjects than we do.

Marilyn Coussoule
Marilyn Coussoule

We may not always live up to ideals, but at the least we could have them! Without a change in man's view of the animal world as just a commodity to trade, rather than a life that is and should be allowed it's own freedom to be within its natural ecosystem, we will come upon that day of the last of the wild. Who among us want to live in a world such as that? We have little time left to make a change.

Christa Witvrouwen
Christa Witvrouwen
  • Marilyn Coussoule

This is so beautifully worded Marilyn ♥

Marilyn Coussoule
Marilyn Coussoule
  • Marilyn Coussoule

thanks, Christa. Hope CITES hears our plea, and feels our anguish!

Hayley Honicke
Hayley Honicke

Of course not. Who gives any person the right to take the life of an animal merely because they have the power to do so.Having said that no organisation has the right to make this kind of decision considering the increment in wild life trafficing already, which is abject at best. And now considering legalizing it....for what purpose and for whose benefit is what I am asking. So a definite NO.

Pat Barlow
Pat Barlow
  • Hayley Honicke

Signed and commented

Michael Franks
Michael Franks

Rather trade in American Bison horns, then see how fast the U.S.A. reacts, they would probably invade the offending nation buying this shit.

Michael Franks
Michael Franks
  • Michael Franks

SHOUT OUT NOW...OR SHUT THE HELL UP COMPLAINING IN THE FUTRE WHEN THEY ALL GONE.

Meher Toorkey
Meher Toorkey

It is as stupid as asking if human parts should be legally traded. Even more stupid, as we are not endangered and wildlife is seriously endangered! leave them alone in the wild.

Josephine Irawati
Josephine Irawati
  • Meher Toorkey

Absolutely NO. I wonder why anyone answered the YES and other options !

Bev Marks
Bev Marks

Absolutely not. The very name WildlLIFE answers the question.

Loraine Peverett
Loraine Peverett
  • Bev Marks

DONE !!!!\

Cherie Bescript
Cherie Bescript

I hate iPad! It captured my vote incorrectly! I vote NO!

Annette Barsby
Annette Barsby
  • Cherie Bescript

What a pain these gadgets are Cherie.

Charise Matthews
Charise Matthews

Email received from John Hume (the largest Rhino breeder in the world).....your opinion is more than welcome!
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I am 100% convinced that we will never start improving our poaching figures until we have legalization, can you imagine if they made it illegal to sell wine worldwide. You would overnight have thousands of illegal wine sales and dealings in the country. That is exactly what has happened in the rhino...

Email received from John Hume (the largest Rhino breeder in the world).....your opinion is more than welcome!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am 100% convinced that we will never start improving our poaching figures until we have legalization, can you imagine if they made it illegal to sell wine worldwide. You would overnight have thousands of illegal wine sales and dealings in the country. That is exactly what has happened in the rhino farming industry inasmuch as they have stopped the sale of all rhino horn unless the rhino is killed. This has had the result of the poachers having the captive market of all the trade with the Far East and unfortunately all of this is at a huge expense of our rhinos lives.
It is my firm belief that the less we trade in rhino horn, the more we will have poached. Unfortunately the western governments do not understand that the more horn that they stop from getting to the East the more orders will go to the poachers horn grows again and it is one of the big 5 as well as the most threatened, I believe that this could have a hugely positive effect on a vote at the next CITIES meeting in 3 years time,

Good luck with your wine sales.
Thanks and regards,

John Hume

Rian Geldenhuys
Rian Geldenhuys
  • Charise Matthews

No-one has to dart grapes with m-99, not is it an endangered species. Wine is a silly argument. The claims are incorrect. Where wine is banned (such as Dubai) there is no trade. At all.

Charise Matthews
Charise Matthews
  • Charise Matthews

Couldn't believe John Hume's comparison.....he just interested in the financial gain to be made from legalizing the trade in Rhino Horn, being one of the largest breeders in the world!

Paula Siggins
Paula Siggins

If we don't learn now at this ever crucial time for both Wildlife & the environment that species should be saved then we have no future... NO to all trade in wildlife parts!!...

Pat Barlow
Pat Barlow

Cant believe this question is even being asked. Its a definite NO. With technology as it is there is no need to use animal parts for any reason. Try using paedophile parts or rapists, far better I think.

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