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Evan Sidener
Evan Sidener

I can only agree with the second point of this petition. The 3rd point is not valid because only those who have made multiple accounts should be punished not everyone who uses the page. While I do not believe in the reckless killing of wolves I do believe in the freedom of speech. Also I have visited one of their pages and while a lot of the page is devoted to hating wolves they have informative stuff as well like videos on how to trap wolves. Your petition is simply an attempt to silence...

I can only agree with the second point of this petition. The 3rd point is not valid because only those who have made multiple accounts should be punished not everyone who uses the page. While I do not believe in the reckless killing of wolves I do believe in the freedom of speech. Also I have visited one of their pages and while a lot of the page is devoted to hating wolves they have informative stuff as well like videos on how to trap wolves. Your petition is simply an attempt to silence those who have a different opinion then you. Also the whole Native American racism is bullshit you used to get facebook to remove their pages. I found no comments racist towards Native Americans on the page which leads me to believe you are saying it is racist towards Native Americans to kill wolves which is simply not true. This whole petition is an attempt to silence those who you disagree with you. You disgust me.

Sharon Gray
Sharon Gray
  • Evan Sidener

Look at the screen shots on this petition. They certainly are racist against Native Americans, and many others. And I said their actions are OFFENSIVE to many Native American tribes who are trying to protect the wolves that live on their land, that they consider to be brothers. This has nothing to do with free speech. Free speech has its limits, and one of them is torture. When these behaviors are posted on a public forum with content standards, they are no longer protected under the blanket...

Look at the screen shots on this petition. They certainly are racist against Native Americans, and many others. And I said their actions are OFFENSIVE to many Native American tribes who are trying to protect the wolves that live on their land, that they consider to be brothers. This has nothing to do with free speech. Free speech has its limits, and one of them is torture. When these behaviors are posted on a public forum with content standards, they are no longer protected under the blanket of free speech. And there are many other "informative" sites where you can learn about trapping and hunting that don't promote torture and cruelty.

Evan Sidener
Evan Sidener
  • Evan Sidener

commenting about torture on a social networking site isn't torture. So free speech still applies here. If you do not like what they say don't read it. Instead make a save the wolves page instead of attacking someone for having a different point of view.

Chris J. Britt
Chris J. Britt

Sharon Gray,

While I support your idea & petition, I cannot sign it... If I did, I would be throwing the First Amendment out the window. Hell, if that were the case, I would create a petition to ban you and your groups views/opinions/speech. The protection of the First Amendment goes both ways, right?

The First Amendment protects the right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression. Freedom of expression consists of the rights to freedom of speech, press, assembly and to petition the...

Sharon Gray,

While I support your idea & petition, I cannot sign it... If I did, I would be throwing the First Amendment out the window. Hell, if that were the case, I would create a petition to ban you and your groups views/opinions/speech. The protection of the First Amendment goes both ways, right?

The First Amendment protects the right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression. Freedom of expression consists of the rights to freedom of speech, press, assembly and to petition the government for a redress of grievances...your petition is not sent in care of the US Government & only wishes to privately sensor the internet and/or Facebook.

The most basic component of freedom of expression is the right of freedom of speech. The right to freedom of speech allows individuals to express themselves without interference or constraint by the government.

Despite popular misunderstanding the right to freedom of the press guaranteed by the first amendment is not very different from the right to freedom of speech. It allows an individual to express themselves through publication and dissemination. It is part of the constitutional protection of freedom of expression. It does not afford members of the media any special rights or privileges not afforded to citizens in general.

So the same amendment not only protects those writing about hunting animals, or specifically wolves, is the same amendment that protects your ability to protest and petition against it. It does not protect nor condone your movement to censor their speech, ideas, or beliefs.

I cannot see how their information would even be considered obscene, which would be a legitimate concern to abate the First Amendment protection. In one of the more famous First Amendment cases, Roth v. United States, there must be a clear and present danger to the public or cause/promote antisocial conduct:

"The protection given speech and press was fashioned to assure unfettered interchange of ideas for the bringing about of political and social changes desired by the people . . . . All ideas having even the slightest redeeming social importance—unorthodox ideas, controversial ideas, even ideas hateful to the prevailing climate of opinion—have the full protection of the guarantees, unless excluded because they encroach upon the limited area of more important interests. But implicit in the history of the First Amendment is the rejection of obscenity as utterly without redeeming social importance."

Similar instances can be found in Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire as an example.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too, Sharon Gray...

Sharon Gray
Sharon Gray
  • Chris J. Britt

You would be correct if this were a situation OTHER THAN a social networking site, which happens to have content standards of which include graphic violence, hate speech, and prejudiced speech. Did you take a look at the screen shots on this petition? It doesn't get much more antisocial. And this has far less to do with silencing their speech than it does stopping the tendency they have to escalate their violent acts and "one-up" each other. It's the "group think" herd mentality. I really...

You would be correct if this were a situation OTHER THAN a social networking site, which happens to have content standards of which include graphic violence, hate speech, and prejudiced speech. Did you take a look at the screen shots on this petition? It doesn't get much more antisocial. And this has far less to do with silencing their speech than it does stopping the tendency they have to escalate their violent acts and "one-up" each other. It's the "group think" herd mentality. I really couldn't care less what they say, it is what they do because of having these sites to gather and promote their agenda. People keep wanting to make this a first amendment issue, and it just isn't. If they were conversing in a bar, or through email, or nearly any other form than facebook, you may have a case. However, facebook decided for itself (as it is allowed to do) to have content standards. The point of this petition is to get facebook to recognize animal cruelty the same way it recognizes all other graphic violence. And please note, these are not "hunting" pictures. These are torture pages. Most hunting groups support this petition because these select few pages do not represent the beliefs of most hunters. If facebook can take down pictures of women breast feeding, they can surely take down pages dedicated to torture and violence towards animals. Again, this isn't about what they say, but what actions their words inspire in each other and making it more difficult for them to get together and perpetuate these behaviors.

Lynne Neville
Lynne Neville
  • Chris J. Britt

What the hell are people thinking of. What about the rights and feelings of animals. Animals don't have voices that can speak up about the horrific torture these (I cannot call them humans because they arn't), things do to animals. What does the First Amendment have to do with torture of any creature - BLOODY NOTHING. I hope you get the page shut down Sharon I am appalled by some peoples opinions about this awful thing. How would they feel if it was their own pet or maybe these so called people think it ok to torture anything.

Diana Robinson
Diana Robinson
  • Chris J. Britt

I don't think acts of cruelty toward animals should be protected by the first amendment, they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. To say that people should be protected under the first amendment to post about their committing acts of cruelty is like saying someone should be able to torture a person and then post pictures and brag about it. Someone is being genuinely harmed, and the harm should not be rewarded.

Marlene Middleton Blackburn

Again. No offense to any people who support this particular cause. @ Sharon Gray; I did look at every photo. Still... Homophobic? Racism? Handicapped?

Marlene Middleton Blackburn
Marlene Middleton Blackburn
  • Marlene Middleton Blackburn

Fyi; not justifing/ making excuses or strongly disagreeing... in 1969 when I was 12, I volunteered years for the no-kill SPCA; worked for veterinarian clinics- some supported by PETA ; in 1998 founded and still am Director for the Richmond Ferret Rescue League... our no-kill ferret shelter has six locations; all of these ferrets are housed in our homes. Most are not caged; they have their own rooms; luckily we have terrific veterinarians. Unwarranted killing of any animal... Especially...

Fyi; not justifing/ making excuses or strongly disagreeing... in 1969 when I was 12, I volunteered years for the no-kill SPCA; worked for veterinarian clinics- some supported by PETA ; in 1998 founded and still am Director for the Richmond Ferret Rescue League... our no-kill ferret shelter has six locations; all of these ferrets are housed in our homes. Most are not caged; they have their own rooms; luckily we have terrific veterinarians. Unwarranted killing of any animal... Especially cruelty... is way beyond horrendous. I am a vegetarian as well; no leather in my home. No offense once again. Please take a look at ALL abuse... of all types whether it be children... elderly...war...

Sharon Gray
Sharon Gray
  • Marlene Middleton Blackburn

The pictures of Obama in black face are racist. The photo of the handicapped child making fun of his disability is prejudiced towards disabled people. If you read the comments (and there are many more on the sites that I didn't take screenshots of) they say incredibly homophobic and misogynistic things. I agree, I am against abuse of all kinds. That is why, even though this petition is primarily aimed at the animal torture, I mentioned the other hate on the pages. These people are sick in many ways.

Marlene Middleton Blackburn
Marlene Middleton Blackburn
  • Marlene Middleton Blackburn

No comment except I stand by my opinion.

Sharon Gray
Sharon Gray
  • Marlene Middleton Blackburn

That is your right. Thank you for what you do for the ferrets, by the way.

Elizabeth Eynon-Sottile

Is it possible that the people running this facebook page, be held accountable on actions of animal cruelty? I can't imagine that this is leagal. Is there some way that we can press their state of residence to press charges?

Sharon Gray
Sharon Gray
  • Elizabeth Eynon-Sottile

Unfortunately most of what they do is legal. We are trying to get those laws changed. In the pictures that show things that aren't legal, the cowards don't show their faces, so even though WE know who they are it can be hard to prove. Many of these guys have animal cruelty charges already (as well as domestic violence, child abuse, assault, etc) and it hasn't deterred them much.

Neville Jones
Neville Jones
  • Elizabeth Eynon-Sottile

SO GET IT OFF LINE THEN THERES NO DEBATE AND NO HELP FOR THE POOR ANIMALS IT WONT STOP BY HIDING IT

Neville Jones
Neville Jones
  • Elizabeth Eynon-Sottile

YOUR JUST HELPING THESE MORONS BY HIDING IT YOU ARE HELPING THE CRUELTY

Lyndsay Norton
Lyndsay Norton

You idiot, are you purposefully stupid or just totally inhumane to the cruelty to animals. Imagine if FB had to ban all child cruelty petitions - would you sign? You moron - so worried about Native Americans - eliminate the natural ecology and you eliminate your 'Native Americans'! Think further than your welfare. I have more respect for the flies that sit on dog poo than I have for people like you.

Kristel
Kristel
  • Lyndsay Norton

You have severe mental and anger issues. I saw how you replied to a bunch of the comments made on this petition. Your sarcasm and ignorance are of no help to ANY cause. You should probably reevaluate your approach. Now go ahead and prove me right with a snide remark regarding what I've just said.

Elizabeth Burchfield
Elizabeth Burchfield
  • Lyndsay Norton

lyndsay, i will pray for your soul, my god have mercy on you. or maybe you'll die and come back in the form of a wolve!

Lyndsay Norton
Lyndsay Norton
  • Lyndsay Norton

Hi there, Kristel. I see we have severe mental and anger issues in common!! Glad to hear I got your back up (just like you get the backs up off the wolves that you are so eager to skin and create recipes for and whatever else), and, yes, you're so predictable with your last sentence ... sigh. Do you know there's a difference between sarcasm and truth - figure it out. I will continue to be anti-you and to your mindless causes. Seems you didn't attend school as you obviously have no idea...

Hi there, Kristel. I see we have severe mental and anger issues in common!! Glad to hear I got your back up (just like you get the backs up off the wolves that you are so eager to skin and create recipes for and whatever else), and, yes, you're so predictable with your last sentence ... sigh. Do you know there's a difference between sarcasm and truth - figure it out. I will continue to be anti-you and to your mindless causes. Seems you didn't attend school as you obviously have no idea of how the ecosystem works (you can google it - I'll even spell it for you - E C O S Y S T E M). Now, go ahead and reply with another mindless post. Oh, sorry, you can't. I'm about to block all the mindless people from my facebook.

Lyndsay Norton
Lyndsay Norton
  • Lyndsay Norton

Hey there Elizabeth - mommy. You're clearly confused. Either you pray to a God you know nothing about or have very little knowledge about the real God. I am accountable to my God, Jehovah, and at least i have a clear conscience that i've obey His law to protect and be kind to animals. Go and google it - where do you stand on that statute? I suggest you pray for your own soul and those of your cohorts. And... oh, dear.... do i have to say it... There is no reincarnation (still, maybe...

Hey there Elizabeth - mommy. You're clearly confused. Either you pray to a God you know nothing about or have very little knowledge about the real God. I am accountable to my God, Jehovah, and at least i have a clear conscience that i've obey His law to protect and be kind to animals. Go and google it - where do you stand on that statute? I suggest you pray for your own soul and those of your cohorts. And... oh, dear.... do i have to say it... There is no reincarnation (still, maybe with your god there is), but if there was, i would happily come back as a wolf and devour you. Have a good life.

Clifford R Huntley
Clifford R Huntley

I want to start posting these ungodly pictures on my page does anyone know the link where I can go and copy them? Please I want to show them and make people sick. I used to save and raise wolves. This is in human. Wolves are the closest animal to humans when it comes to there social behavior and family behavior. One thing I always new was my little children who are now grown were never safer alone as long as my wolf pack was with them. They would die before they would let anyone harm my...

I want to start posting these ungodly pictures on my page does anyone know the link where I can go and copy them? Please I want to show them and make people sick. I used to save and raise wolves. This is in human. Wolves are the closest animal to humans when it comes to there social behavior and family behavior. One thing I always new was my little children who are now grown were never safer alone as long as my wolf pack was with them. They would die before they would let anyone harm my kids. I watched it many times when a person they did not know tried to walk up to my kids they would all run and get between my kids and the person and the sound that came out of them was only one warning, don't take another step closer. My Alphas thought my kids were there kids, heck I could not even raise my voice at the kids if they were in the house they would even jump in between me and the kids and look up at me as if to say Not on my watch dad. This has to stop. I feel as if they are killing my kids.

Sharon Gray
Sharon Gray
  • Clifford R Huntley

Clifford, I sent you a message.

Theresa Reid-Davies
Theresa Reid-Davies
  • Clifford R Huntley

may the blessings of the Great Spirit be with you Clifford

Mo Pigeon
Mo Pigeon
  • Clifford R Huntley

Hi Clifford, I am a Canadian writer and in my historical fiction book coming out in 2014 I have a whole chapter on a 'two-legged's" awed interaction with a wolf. It is a survival historical fiction about an Ojibwe family that spans 4 generations and begins in The Arctic Circle which I've travelled extensively. I lived in The Yukon Territory and travelled all through The Yukon and Alaska in summer, autumn and winter. I saw many wolves and they are truly our close mammal 'relatives'...noble...

Hi Clifford, I am a Canadian writer and in my historical fiction book coming out in 2014 I have a whole chapter on a 'two-legged's" awed interaction with a wolf. It is a survival historical fiction about an Ojibwe family that spans 4 generations and begins in The Arctic Circle which I've travelled extensively. I lived in The Yukon Territory and travelled all through The Yukon and Alaska in summer, autumn and winter. I saw many wolves and they are truly our close mammal 'relatives'...noble creatures who have much to teach us, if only we'd recognize their innate nobility, loyalty, majesty, intelligence, and compassion. They are curious, playful, protective and absolutely incredibly beautiful. I was raised not to fear wolves, by my Ojibwe father, and my Celtic mother...and I have had a lifelong deep respect for these teachers. I agree with you completely and was deeply moved by your post. Thank-you for sharing "how wolves have been with your children...their kids and cubs. I've long been signing petitions and trying to raise awareness in protection for wolves, and in fact all living creatures. Best to you.

Ange Allen Rosett
Ange Allen Rosett
  • Clifford R Huntley

I'm not even going to look at any of the torture pictures because I know I won't be able to take it. Just the thought of it makes me sick to my stomach. I will sign the petition. I have Indian in my blood on both sides of my family so this grieves my soul.

Gina Cracchiolo
Gina Cracchiolo

Remove this page. It is offensive to everyone.

Paulo Fogliano
Paulo Fogliano
  • Gina Cracchiolo

you right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yari De Leon
Yari De Leon
  • Gina Cracchiolo

Wow are you guys all blind?? By deleting these pages you are all just as cruel as the ppl torturing them, by looking the other way and doing nothing to help theses animals. Instead of deleting the pages you should get more involved on how to stop theses fuckers from harming theses innocennt creatures. How about do something to help save the animals. I actually disagree the pages should be kept up so the world see's what's truly going on! Period! If you care get involved don't turn your backs!!!!

Colin Wright
Colin Wright
  • Gina Cracchiolo

It would be helpful if you could suggest a specific action to take. Most of the people trying to get these pages taken down probably ARE doing other things to help animals. For my own part, I work every day rescuing cats and other animals. What do you suggest I do to help the animals that are being depicted on these horrible facebook pages?

Martha Estela Fernandez
Martha Estela Fernandez
  • Gina Cracchiolo

What i suggest is to KEEP ON DENOUNCING THOSE ATTROCITIES by making people actually see the way animals are tortured...every single day in the most repulsive way...that´s what I suggest...

Merley Morgan
Merley Morgan
  • Gina Cracchiolo

What I think is that Martha and Yari actually dig it.

Gina Cracchiolo
Gina Cracchiolo
  • Gina Cracchiolo

This kind of stuff should be stopped simply because not only is it an endangerment to the animals but also the human race. If people keep breaking the laws of nature, bad stuff will happen and already is happening. The only way for this to end is for a cataclysmic occurrence on the planet to clean out the human race and their evil ways.

Jeffrey Quillinan
Jeffrey Quillinan

It is not only offensive to Native Americans, it is offensive to any sane rational person regardless of race, culture, ethnicity or religious belief. As an Asatruar, I am very deeply offended and saddened by this terrible news. I never knew this type of thing went on with the wolves and I have been supporting Defenders of Wildlife for years. I am shocked and disgusted by these wolf killers and Facebook should take down their vile pages.

Lyndsay Norton
Lyndsay Norton
  • Jeffrey Quillinan

Well said, Jeffrey (:

Caroline Halden
Caroline Halden
  • Jeffrey Quillinan

Totally agree , but are we as people challenging facebook enough ?

Brucie Ridgeback
Brucie Ridgeback
  • Jeffrey Quillinan

Are you sure it was them... A great deal of the Colville land is not actually owned by the tribes.. Although it is their goal to one day own all of it.......

Michael Girvin
Michael Girvin
  • Jeffrey Quillinan

Yes Caroline we are enough it is working

Kathy Quinn
Kathy Quinn
  • Jeffrey Quillinan

Misty Fay - could you please focus on the Wolf and not be so petty as to go after Jeffrey?!

Mo Pigeon
Mo Pigeon
  • Jeffrey Quillinan

Absolutely Jeffrey! I am Ojibwe/Celtic....this is deeply scarring and offensive to any living being with even a peck left of undulled conscience.

Rita Lovelace
Rita Lovelace
  • Jeffrey Quillinan

I watched the Inuit kill Muscox and Caraboo. When they killed these animals, they used every part of the body!

Kathy Baird Bussey
Kathy Baird Bussey

After reading your total post I am regretful I signed this petition. In true political fashion you include issues that have ZERO to do with the main topic of offence "animal cruelty". PLEASE inform me what does homosexuality have to do with this particular petition? IF you want to be successful in stopping the wolf page issue or any other issue, stop playing politics, that belongs in Washington, we know to expect it there( unfortunately). I will not again sign one of your petitions, no...

After reading your total post I am regretful I signed this petition. In true political fashion you include issues that have ZERO to do with the main topic of offence "animal cruelty". PLEASE inform me what does homosexuality have to do with this particular petition? IF you want to be successful in stopping the wolf page issue or any other issue, stop playing politics, that belongs in Washington, we know to expect it there( unfortunately). I will not again sign one of your petitions, no matter how noble the supposed cause, I'll find another one that doesn't try and manipulate morals for all of us.

Sharon Gray
Sharon Gray
  • Kathy Baird Bussey

The petition is about removing the pages from facebook. In order to do that, unfortunately, it IS political. Facebook does not have any specific mention of animals in their community standards. They do mention religions, races, sexual orientation, etc. In order to get fb to remove the page, we must appeal to the rules they have in place. And I also felt it relevant to point out that these people not only hurt animals, but are harmful to most people as well. There is no manipulation, it is...

The petition is about removing the pages from facebook. In order to do that, unfortunately, it IS political. Facebook does not have any specific mention of animals in their community standards. They do mention religions, races, sexual orientation, etc. In order to get fb to remove the page, we must appeal to the rules they have in place. And I also felt it relevant to point out that these people not only hurt animals, but are harmful to most people as well. There is no manipulation, it is clearly stated. I assume most people read the petition before signing it. I find it incredibly telling that you would sign a petition about animal rights but are then offended when it also stands up for the rights of people...

Kathy Baird Bussey
Kathy Baird Bussey
  • Kathy Baird Bussey

Oh make no mistake I am all for the rights of people, just not for the rights of something I find morally offensive and still I argue the point that sexual preference has nothing to do with the cause you wanted to petition. I did not read the whole of your argument as I had no reason to feel I needed to, you proved me wrong and from now on I will not just take things at face value, this is just a social community , not a political arena. And if you want to make a difference then I suggest...

Oh make no mistake I am all for the rights of people, just not for the rights of something I find morally offensive and still I argue the point that sexual preference has nothing to do with the cause you wanted to petition. I did not read the whole of your argument as I had no reason to feel I needed to, you proved me wrong and from now on I will not just take things at face value, this is just a social community , not a political arena. And if you want to make a difference then I suggest you ask them to change their community standards that way you don't have to sneak through the backdoor to get what you want. And what is so "telling" about my love of animals and my refusal to give a nod to homosexuality? Sorry I'm not politically correct that way :) I've spent too much time on this. Have a great day.

Sharon Gray
Sharon Gray
  • Kathy Baird Bussey

Then you are not for the rights of all people. This petition has nothing to do with attempting to make gay marriage legal, or any other political issue that homosexuals contend with. It is about torture and bullying. If you looked at the screenshots, these people are not commenting on their moral beliefs. They are harassing and bullying people -not just gay people- black people, women, mentally disabled people, etc. Surely you are opposed to bullying? I think you read the one buzzword...

Then you are not for the rights of all people. This petition has nothing to do with attempting to make gay marriage legal, or any other political issue that homosexuals contend with. It is about torture and bullying. If you looked at the screenshots, these people are not commenting on their moral beliefs. They are harassing and bullying people -not just gay people- black people, women, mentally disabled people, etc. Surely you are opposed to bullying? I think you read the one buzzword "homosexual" and let your bigotry run away with your reasoning abilities. Might I also add that nearly 300,000 people have signed this petition and not one of them have taken issue with homosexuals being mentioned. A handful have disagreed with arguing for the religious beliefs of Native Americans. There are MANY reasons to remove these hate pages. Make no mistake about it, everything they put out there, whether it be towards animals or people, is HATE. And THAT is what has no place on a social community.

Sharon Gray
Sharon Gray
  • Kathy Baird Bussey

I should also point out that homosexual behavior has been observed in wolves, and many, many other animal species, as well. If I were you I might find it a little difficult to reconcile my "moral" stance on homosexuality with my love of animals, and desire to stand up for one but not the other...

Kathy Baird Bussey
Kathy Baird Bussey
  • Kathy Baird Bussey

That is absurd for you to say I am not for the rights of all people, based on the fact I will not buy into the falsehood that homosexuality is a natural trait for any living being. I have the right to choose my own belief system and I will not equate a chosen lifestyle with the color of someones skin or mental abilities, that's ridiculous. And I have never stood aside for bullying, because I disagree with your promotion of a lifestyle you throw out the buzzword bigot, where did I say it was...

That is absurd for you to say I am not for the rights of all people, based on the fact I will not buy into the falsehood that homosexuality is a natural trait for any living being. I have the right to choose my own belief system and I will not equate a chosen lifestyle with the color of someones skin or mental abilities, that's ridiculous. And I have never stood aside for bullying, because I disagree with your promotion of a lifestyle you throw out the buzzword bigot, where did I say it was ok to bully anyone? Please point that out, if you are going to make accusations like that, back it up. And as far as animals being homosexuals, it's well known that animals will mock mount another weaker animal to dominate, also why a female will also mount even though there is obviously no sex involved, but you go on believing what you want, it's your right to have an affinity for whatever you choose. Personally I would stand up for a homosexual, for the person NOT the life choice. And as far as these people that have these pages filled with hate they need to be kicked off of FB, I have NO sympathies for their plight.

Sharon Gray
Sharon Gray
  • Kathy Baird Bussey

I am a biologist. I have studied animal behavior as well as genetics. I am not referring to dominance behavior. I am referring to homosexual sex. We have found the epi-marks that genetically pass homosexuality from parent to child. You can think whatever you want about homosexuality, it is your freedom to remain ignorant to the science if you choose. I'll say it again, this petition is about standing up to hate in all its forms. Nothing else. The people that are on these pages that we are...

I am a biologist. I have studied animal behavior as well as genetics. I am not referring to dominance behavior. I am referring to homosexual sex. We have found the epi-marks that genetically pass homosexuality from parent to child. You can think whatever you want about homosexuality, it is your freedom to remain ignorant to the science if you choose. I'll say it again, this petition is about standing up to hate in all its forms. Nothing else. The people that are on these pages that we are trying to remove are sociopaths and in many instances psychopaths. Where, exactly, am I promoting a lifestyle? I happen to be an atheist, yet I mention religion in my petition. Again, I think you maybe need to reread the petition. You say you would stand up for a person, but not the life choice- then you shouldn't have any issue whatsoever with this petition.

Kathy Baird Bussey
Kathy Baird Bussey
  • Kathy Baird Bussey

I'm sure our great halls of liberal education have schooled you well, I however have zero faith in mankind's feeble attempts at trying to disprove the existence of a creator. You have faith in man's intelligence and I have faith in God who created his intelligence. I am not ignorant of what you call science, I'm well aware of the agenda behind much of it, I just believe in the conclusions of christian scientists, which of course is ignored by the overwhelming majority of atheistic, liberal...

I'm sure our great halls of liberal education have schooled you well, I however have zero faith in mankind's feeble attempts at trying to disprove the existence of a creator. You have faith in man's intelligence and I have faith in God who created his intelligence. I am not ignorant of what you call science, I'm well aware of the agenda behind much of it, I just believe in the conclusions of christian scientists, which of course is ignored by the overwhelming majority of atheistic, liberal college professors. It's no wonder you believe as you do. And I still do not see why I should stand up for anyone based on what sin they indulge in, in their lives. I would stand up for almost anyone as a person but not in defense based on their sexual sin, if you can't understand that, guess we're at a dead end.

Sharon Gray
Sharon Gray
  • Kathy Baird Bussey

Christian scientists? You say that as if there is a group of them in a lab somewhere being denied funding and access to publication in journals. Many, in fact the majority, of my colleagues are Christians. And I went to a private Presbyterian college that taught religion, as well as science. They don't have to oppose one another. I know of literally no legitimate scientists that are trying to disprove God. Science is about controlled, reproducible experiments. Anything philosophical,...

Christian scientists? You say that as if there is a group of them in a lab somewhere being denied funding and access to publication in journals. Many, in fact the majority, of my colleagues are Christians. And I went to a private Presbyterian college that taught religion, as well as science. They don't have to oppose one another. I know of literally no legitimate scientists that are trying to disprove God. Science is about controlled, reproducible experiments. Anything philosophical, mystical, or religious is by nature excluded from being able to be proven or disproven by science. One of the most important lessons that a scientist learns in their education is the LIMITS of science and human intelligence. Not one of us pretends to have all the answers. It sounds like you have had a bad experience somewhere, and that is unfortunate because science shouldn't be the enemy of religion. Many of our greatest scientists believed they went hand in hand. My own personal beliefs on religion were formed at a very young age and are completely separate from my professional work.

As far as the "agenda" behind science- you are watching way too much media b.s. Are scientists human? Yes. Can they make mistakes? Of course. But there is no other field that holds itself to a higher standard of integrity or has more checks and balances in place than science. That is why we have peer-reviewed journals. So a team of highly qualified, diverse, scientists can double check and make sure that the science being submitted isn't biased or inaccurate. It is extremely difficult to get research published because it is held to such rigorous standards. Now are these methods 100% perfect? No, but they are the best we've come up with, and I challenge you to find any other professional field that is held to that level of care and scrutiny. And the scientists that DO have agendas, and DO receive biased funding (and they happen on both sides, it is certainly not just liberals) are rarely able to publish due to this fact.

Having said all that, I still feel as if there is a communication barrier here. I think we are actually saying the same thing, just coming at it from completely different sides. Again I will state, I am talking about standing up against people being bullied and ridiculed for who they are or what they believe. I would stand up for you if someone were bullying you even though we clearly have very different belief systems. In fact, no where have I even stated my own personal views on homosexuality, you assumed them. And you did assume them correctly, but I never stated them as they are irrelevant to the point of this petition. I find people who abuse and torture animals to be ugly, abhorrent people. I also don't like when those same individuals abuse a group of people for whatever reason they find to do so. I don't have to agree with a person's beliefs to believe they shouldn't be harassed. Again, that is why I mention the Native American's religious views. I do not share them, but can appreciate how devastating it is to them to see their religious symbols treated in a horrific manner. It is all about decency. Decency to each other and decency to the creatures we share this Earth with.

Kathy Baird Bussey
Kathy Baird Bussey
  • Kathy Baird Bussey

Thanks Sharon, you made me chuckle. You and I could go round and round and never make headway, because I certainly don't believe you have the right information, and you do not believe that I do. Science as a whole will never prove an absolute concerning God, that is why salvation is faith based, but is also why it will never prove evolution, of the two "possibilities" a Creator is much more feasible than trying to make a man out of, well, nothing. As far as your personal beliefs not having...

Thanks Sharon, you made me chuckle. You and I could go round and round and never make headway, because I certainly don't believe you have the right information, and you do not believe that I do. Science as a whole will never prove an absolute concerning God, that is why salvation is faith based, but is also why it will never prove evolution, of the two "possibilities" a Creator is much more feasible than trying to make a man out of, well, nothing. As far as your personal beliefs not having anything to do with your professional work, that's ludicrous to assert, every moment of our lives, every thought and every understanding we adhere to is sifted through our personal belief system, to deny that is not very honest and I believe makes an honest debate impossible. But back to the original disagreement, I do not see any difference between my refusal to defend homosexuals any more than I'd defend adulterers based on their choice in life, I did not bring up their sexual preferences in the petition and I don't think it needed to be . There are a lot of defenseless beings that are being bullied, indeed killed and I think their cause is much more sympathetic than folks who choose a life contrary to Gods design. I do agree with you concerning animals however. I believe we have an obligation to care for them and to treat them humanely and I believe this is Gods will. He never even meant that we would be meat eaters, but because his perfect will for us was lost through disobedience, we started killing them after the flood. But God is a humane and loving creator, so this practice will end when he establishes his new Heaven. And for my own credentials,( hahaha) I am one of those people who chase a dog down a freeway to keep it from being killed. I live trap cats that need a home. I hate fur trapping and believe it needs to be outlawed, (why in this day and age it is still legal is beyond comprehension) I also think spaying and neutering should be law for all pets. I dodge traffic to help turtles cross roads and I refuse to "dispatch" or relocate preditors ie: bobcats, coyotes etc. that live or "trespass" on our land, because indeed it's their land too. I do not however equate animal rights to human rights, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be protected and treated with the utmost compassion and respect. I do believe we are at an impasse Ms. Gray, Gods best to you and I hope I didn't ruffle your feathers too much :)

Kirk Slaughter
Kirk Slaughter
  • Kathy Baird Bussey

Go home homophobe, you're drunk.

Margot Mistery
Margot Mistery

Animal joy killing should never be allowed anywhere and for any reason.

Eleanor Giles
Eleanor Giles
  • Margot Mistery

signed and shared

Klaus Ehlers
Klaus Ehlers
  • Margot Mistery

Not only animal joy killing, - any kind of animal killing should be stopped, - go veggie!

Mary Spilios
Mary Spilios
  • Margot Mistery

I agree with you and others...animal killing is awul. we have deer crossing signs, speed limits but people still find joy in hitting deer as they cross the street and tie them to the hood of their car for display

Tammie Gill
Tammie Gill
  • Margot Mistery

Klaus Ehlers What will you be saying when the population is out of hand and they come into your yard and kill your pets? Or better yet, humans are the most tasty dish of all. Wildlife management is where the problem is. And the petitions like this that make it okay for wildlife to over grow in population instead of letting nature take its course. This should be based on the actions of one man and those like him, the minority, and not judged as what the majority do that is humane and merciful.

Tammie Gill
Tammie Gill
  • Margot Mistery

Mary Sue Spilios Actually deer get in the middle of the road and when the lights shine on them, they freeze. And by then it is too late to avoid them. A minority enjoy hitting deer, especially with the rise of auto insurance and those same companies try everything they can to not pay for the damage a large animal, like a deer does to a car. Cars don't stop on a dime. And those who brag about hitting one should be lashed for not being more watchful when they know there are deer in the...

Mary Sue Spilios Actually deer get in the middle of the road and when the lights shine on them, they freeze. And by then it is too late to avoid them. A minority enjoy hitting deer, especially with the rise of auto insurance and those same companies try everything they can to not pay for the damage a large animal, like a deer does to a car. Cars don't stop on a dime. And those who brag about hitting one should be lashed for not being more watchful when they know there are deer in the area. Then again some of those people have food for the winter and won't starve.

Mike Cannon
Mike Cannon
  • Margot Mistery

Seriously???

Mo Pigeon
Mo Pigeon
  • Margot Mistery

Lets start calling it what it is "sadistic murder". And yes I agree whole-heartedly...it should never be allowed anywhere, by anyone.

Sharon Gray
Sharon Gray
  • Margot Mistery

Misty Fay, I have lived in the rockies in wolf territory. You know what I did when a wolf was in my back yard? I stayed inside for a few minutes until it was gone. NOT A BIG DEAL. And certainly not life and death. More people are killed by vending machines every year than wolves. It's a fact. Look it up.

Nanette Donithan
Nanette Donithan
  • Margot Mistery

Really?... u think people r finding joy in hitting deer with their cars?...dummy...wolves are at epidemic levels and need to be hunted to control populations so they don't suffer...the hunt and harvest of meat and fur is a time honored tradition...

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