Donna Dawson
Donna Dawson

Medical professionals have discovered and researched these vaccines and weighed the benefts against the negatives, although there is a small percentage of children who have a reaction, overall these vaccines should be given, because if your child becomes ill with polio, mumps or measles with no protection it can be very serious.

Ruth Acaster
Ruth Acaster
  • Donna Dawson

You'll be aware then that the only cases of polio in the western world are caused by the polio vaccine.

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Donna Dawson

That's actually untrue. Polio was around in the western world long before the vaccine was, and many hundreds of thousands of children were paralysed for life from it, a fate worse than death if you ask me, therefore it is impossible for it to have been caused by the vaccine. You, however, are probably not old enough to remember it, which is why we have public historical records of the fact, which you are free to peruse at your leisure.

Mindy Utz
Mindy Utz
  • Donna Dawson

Donna, I am not disagreeing with you that there are many more people who were not harmed by them...but to deny the ones who were is reckless.

Mindy Utz
Mindy Utz
  • Donna Dawson

Autism isn't serious? Guess we burn the few (1 in 50 boys) at the stake for pissing on the vaccine parade? It shocks the heck out of me how concerned everyone is with diseases the MIGHT cause permanent damage or death over one that has NO CHANCE of a cure at this time. Thanks for throwing OUR kids under the bus to save YOURS. I will remember that if my disabled child ever needs an organ donation. We will just take some of YOUR kids parts to fix MY kid...hey, stop griping or crying about...

Autism isn't serious? Guess we burn the few (1 in 50 boys) at the stake for pissing on the vaccine parade? It shocks the heck out of me how concerned everyone is with diseases the MIGHT cause permanent damage or death over one that has NO CHANCE of a cure at this time. Thanks for throwing OUR kids under the bus to save YOURS. I will remember that if my disabled child ever needs an organ donation. We will just take some of YOUR kids parts to fix MY kid...hey, stop griping or crying about it...YOUR kid was one of the few sacrificed to save MINE. Turn about is fair play...RIGHT? Or are you a hypocrite once YOUR childs life is on the line? You can't have it both ways.

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Donna Dawson

Mistie Delorey gaia health is not a credible source of information. please provide reputable and credible sources to support this article

Derek Hordle
Derek Hordle
  • Donna Dawson

Because polio in western world has been eliminated by vaccination. But if we stop vaccinating we will be back to the polio wards of 50 years ago with plenty of young people living in iron lungs because of stupidity.

Mindy Utz
Mindy Utz
  • Donna Dawson

Derek...now you know how we feel about OUR children that were harmed.
Why are other kids anymore important than mine? Because mine is already disabled...it doesn't matter?
Talk about hypocritical.
You're so worried about what MIGHT happen with a disease that HAS A CHANCE of going away While you throw the children under the bus that ALREADY DO have health problems from injury that HAVE NO CHANCE of going away.
That's just plain silly.

Dawn Burcham Ingold
Dawn Burcham Ingold
  • Donna Dawson

Could you let me know what medical professionals, that you are aware of, are knowledgeable, regarding vaccines? I am a medical professional, and with all due respect, there is no training received regarding

Terry Kendall Schnitzler

The problem is, there is too much profit associated with vaccines. Behavior is far greater importance when it comes to HIV or HPV. Why the vaccine? The Pharma industry is capitalizing on fear and making designer vaccines, fueling fear and selling like hotcakes. The only child I have know to have whooping cough had already had the vaccine.
Knowing anything about how organisms like flu viruses work, there may be some benefit from the vaccine to the individual but logic says there is an...

The problem is, there is too much profit associated with vaccines. Behavior is far greater importance when it comes to HIV or HPV. Why the vaccine? The Pharma industry is capitalizing on fear and making designer vaccines, fueling fear and selling like hotcakes. The only child I have know to have whooping cough had already had the vaccine.
Knowing anything about how organisms like flu viruses work, there may be some benefit from the vaccine to the individual but logic says there is an element of forcing mutation which effects the whole of society.

Certainly there are illnesses that have been wiped out, thank you vaccines, education and hygeine, BUT the process of vaccination is one that should not be overplayed like anti-biotics, the over-use hurts everyone as we push these organisms to more quickly evolve until, like a ticking time bomb, we have a new series of resistant killers like Staph.

No longer is Pharma answering the call of need, but greed. Just look at how pills are pushed as the answer to every insecurity or ailment when really it is lifestyle and often a shift in trends. Sedating our elderly, sedating our children, sedating and who knows what else, the armed forced.

We already have serious problems due to the overuse of anti-biotics, antibacterials etc. we cannot afford to let Pharma run wild trying to sell us every vaccine of which they can make.

Lynne Batik
Lynne Batik
  • Terry Kendall Schnitzler

Vaccines are the lowest profit item in the pharmaceutical stable, far lower profit than antibiotics, anti-inflammatories, and all the drugs needed to manage serious illness. They are also the most intensively monitored of any medical intervention on the market. If "Big Pharma" were only and solely in it for the profit, their best bet would be to drop the vaccines and let the diseases take hold again.

And unlike antibiotics, vaccines cannot be overused. That's not how they work. They...

Vaccines are the lowest profit item in the pharmaceutical stable, far lower profit than antibiotics, anti-inflammatories, and all the drugs needed to manage serious illness. They are also the most intensively monitored of any medical intervention on the market. If "Big Pharma" were only and solely in it for the profit, their best bet would be to drop the vaccines and let the diseases take hold again.

And unlike antibiotics, vaccines cannot be overused. That's not how they work. They prevent transmission, they enable the body's own immune system to wipe out an infection before it takes hold -- mutation only happens after an infection, when the pathogen is replicating! Before a pathogen begins to replicate in the body, there is little chance of mutation. If replication is cut short, there is less chance of mutation than if the disease gets going. In fact, this is how vaccination cuts down on opportunities for disease mutation.

Flu only mutates every year because it is in constant circulation through people and animals it has infected; replication in an active infection is what gives it the chance to mutate.

It's important to understand how this works; if you don't understand why what I've just said is true, say so, I'll have a better stab at explaining.

Terry Kendall Schnitzler
Terry Kendall Schnitzler
  • Terry Kendall Schnitzler

You are so very sure of yourself, must be comforting. I understand what you are saying but there is more to it. Thank you for your information. I don't think it's wrong, but incomplete.

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Terry Kendall Schnitzler

It's not about being sure of ourselves. It's about logic - very simple logic. How did these companies get so big in the first place if they're dodgy? Why do they care so much about vaccines in particular when most of their profits come from cosmetics? Why would they make something that they knew did more harm than good - the risk to their profits as a whole, including their cosmetic products, via reputation is too high. Ever use shampoo? Toothpaste? Hair product of any kind? All made by "big...

It's not about being sure of ourselves. It's about logic - very simple logic. How did these companies get so big in the first place if they're dodgy? Why do they care so much about vaccines in particular when most of their profits come from cosmetics? Why would they make something that they knew did more harm than good - the risk to their profits as a whole, including their cosmetic products, via reputation is too high. Ever use shampoo? Toothpaste? Hair product of any kind? All made by "big Pharma". And I don't think I need to get a financial report out to demonstrate why they would be higher-selling products than vaccines. Not to mention the billions that go into vaccines that never get passed trials and never enter circulation because they are, actually, useless or too dangerous.

Simple answer - they don't get that big by being stupid, and they don't stay that big by being stupid, and their is no big pharma conspiracy where they are wilfully endangering health in the name of profit. There are easier ways to make big bucks, and they've all been doing it for decades - cosmetics.

Lynne Batik
Lynne Batik
  • Terry Kendall Schnitzler

Terry, I study molecular biology. Knowing the basics of how pathogens replicate is kind of important. I'm curious as to what "more to it" there is that you think I'm missing about this science, and what your source of knowledge is.

Dianna Donnelly
Dianna Donnelly
  • Terry Kendall Schnitzler

to study is not to be an expert. please remember that.

Lynne Batik
Lynne Batik
  • Terry Kendall Schnitzler

"Not studying it" doesn't make you an expert either -- please remember that.

And, having studied something for real: "reading things on the internet" isn't studying. Unless you have the background and basics to enable you to tell the difference between good information and bad, and understand the whys and hows of how physiology works at a level which gives you a reasonable chance to judge plausibility, then reading on the internet is far more likely just to drown you in pseudoscience...

"Not studying it" doesn't make you an expert either -- please remember that.

And, having studied something for real: "reading things on the internet" isn't studying. Unless you have the background and basics to enable you to tell the difference between good information and bad, and understand the whys and hows of how physiology works at a level which gives you a reasonable chance to judge plausibility, then reading on the internet is far more likely just to drown you in pseudoscience and bad info. The noise:signal ratio on the internet in general is appalling. That's why a formal education in something, where you are taught mechanism and how things hang together, is just so damn useful.

No, what I'm learning is still sort of the basics. But it's the basics at a way different level.

Alan James Greaves
Alan James Greaves

Vaccine manufacturers have paid out nearly $2B in damages to parents in America whose children were harmed by one of the childhood jabs such as the MMR (measles-mumps-rubella) or DPT (diphtheria-pertussis-tetanus). In all, around 2,000 families have received compensation payments that have averaged $850,000 each. There are a further 700 claims that are going through the pipeline. None of the claims is for autism as medical researchers say they have failed to find a link between the disease...

Vaccine manufacturers have paid out nearly $2B in damages to parents in America whose children were harmed by one of the childhood jabs such as the MMR (measles-mumps-rubella) or DPT (diphtheria-pertussis-tetanus). In all, around 2,000 families have received compensation payments that have averaged $850,000 each. There are a further 700 claims that are going through the pipeline. None of the claims is for autism as medical researchers say they have failed to find a link between the disease and the MMR vaccine, despite the initial findings made by Dr Andrew Wakefield. Instead they are for a wide spectrum of physical and mental conditions that are likely to have been caused by one of the vaccinations. Around 7,000 parents have filed a claim of an adverse reaction with America's Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP). To win an award, the claimant must prove a causal link to a vaccine. As the medical establishment has refused to recognise any link to autism, the VICP has so far rejected 300 claims for this outright. (Source: New England Journal of Medicine)Medicine.

Lara Lohne
Lara Lohne
  • Alan James Greaves

Considering that since the advent of the vaccine court in the 1980s, billions of people have been vaccinated through the years, around 2000 people being damaged and given compensation is actually pretty good odds all things considered. No, I am not saying that these people are 'justifiable losses' just pointing out that vaccine reaction and injury isn't as wide spread as anti-vaccine groups try and tell us. By the way Alan James Greaves, spamming the comments doesn't help make you look like...

Considering that since the advent of the vaccine court in the 1980s, billions of people have been vaccinated through the years, around 2000 people being damaged and given compensation is actually pretty good odds all things considered. No, I am not saying that these people are 'justifiable losses' just pointing out that vaccine reaction and injury isn't as wide spread as anti-vaccine groups try and tell us. By the way Alan James Greaves, spamming the comments doesn't help make you look like a rational, well informed individual. It makes you look pushy, manipulative and controlling. Those tactics have never shown positive results when attempting to persuade people of something. It is just off putting.

Stephanie Marie
Stephanie Marie
  • Alan James Greaves

People should realize the battle you have when your child is injured by a vaccination. You are told by the medical profession that the problems your child experienced after a vaccine is NORMAL over and over again. Then we you get over that hurdle of knowing it was not a normal thing you have only 3 YEARS after the date of first symptom of injury. With neurological problems it can take way longer then 3 years to get a diagnosis. It took 5 years for me to get my sons official diagnosis.

Lara Lohne
Lara Lohne
  • Alan James Greaves

If your son's official diagnosis is an ASD, he didn't get it from a vaccine, that was predetermined prior to birth. Vaccines have nothing to do with it.

Stephanie Marie
Stephanie Marie
  • Alan James Greaves

You have no clue one what you are talking about. My son was normal, happy, healthy, speaking, engaged toddler then he had tripedia after tripedia he became sick with infections after infection that normal oral antibiotics wouldnt get rid of. Before dtap normal healthy. The day of Dtap sick and lost all communication skills, words, eye contact everything. And who gets an official diagnosis of ASD? Thats the the umbrella the spectrum falls under.

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Alan James Greaves

It seems you think that because it happened immediately after the vaccine, it was caused by the vaccine.

Did you know that immediately after the attack on the WTC, I lost my job? Should I blame the loss of my job on 9/11? It had nothing to do with it. And vaccines have nothing to do with autism.

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Alan James Greaves

No, it doesn't. It's a correlation. One thing that happened after the other, and I used something so obvious to demonstrate how correlation does not equal causation. That is, vaccines do NOT cause autism just because autism occurs around the same time. If you cannot see how that analogy works just fine to demonstrate that case, then you probably need to think about it a little harder. That, or you're choosing not to, but the opinion of how silly something is coming from someone with an obvious bias cannot be taken seriously.

Daniel Weinstein
Daniel Weinstein

I've left the poll pretty much alone. I haven't eliminated any comments. I've even broken my own rule that anyone who chooses to use the word "sheeple" has nothing to say and should be immediately banned. But I'm beginning to think this entire action has by hijacked by various antivax groups. 45% voting for never ever is ridiculous. I'm considering deleting this entire poll, or starting to be a more active moderator. Thoughts?

Jared Hyams
Jared Hyams
  • Daniel Weinstein

while i do enjoy the debates...It is up to you..
Like the comments sections of youtube videos... The vocal minority is here... and they have come with all their usual suspects of misinformation..

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Daniel Weinstein

don't delete it. polls prove nothing, they are not science. online opinion polls can also be fooled by hackers, and the "sample population" privy to the poll may be influenced by any number of people.

Daniel Weinstein
Daniel Weinstein
  • Daniel Weinstein

Sue Dick I try to follow the comments and the level of unpleasantness seems to be increasing. I don't care if antivaxxers break the poll, but I don't want the level of debate to descend too far into name calling. The Immunisation Initiative is about promoting vaccination and awareness of vaccination in our communities. It's not designed to be a debating society for antivaxxers.

Suzy Que
Suzy Que
  • Daniel Weinstein

Did you remove my post Daniel?

Mindy Utz
Mindy Utz
  • Daniel Weinstein

So just because you aren't receiving the answers that coincide with your own beliefs...you silence it and hide it? I am not an "anti-vaxxer" nor was I brought here by any group or asked to do so. I came here on my own free will. I am not "pro-vaccines" nor am I "anti-vaccine"...I am "pro-cleaner vaccines...but until they are cleaned up...I don't want them touching my child ever again. My son was developing normally, walked at 9 months...he was running at 10 months, talked early, etc. He was...

So just because you aren't receiving the answers that coincide with your own beliefs...you silence it and hide it? I am not an "anti-vaxxer" nor was I brought here by any group or asked to do so. I came here on my own free will. I am not "pro-vaccines" nor am I "anti-vaccine"...I am "pro-cleaner vaccines...but until they are cleaned up...I don't want them touching my child ever again. My son was developing normally, walked at 9 months...he was running at 10 months, talked early, etc. He was not only given MMR vaccine at the time he became violently ill, but he had even been given TOO many MMR shots. One was not written down by the nurse at the time all his other shots were given. She said he needed another one so the date could be filled in. I told her I knew he had received it the day marked as all the others. She said she could not do that but he still needed another one. I specifically asked her if an extra one would harm him. The answer I was given, "No. Not at all". This was before anything about vaccines/autism was ever brought up. If you delete your poll, you are becoming part of the problem...just like our government, CDC, FDA, and Big Pharma...sweeping the REAL problem under the rug. If you can not see it, it doesn't exist.

Daniel Weinstein
Daniel Weinstein
  • Daniel Weinstein

Suzy Que I haven't removed any posts whatsoever from this poll. If you read you'll find plenty of silly, offensive and dumb things being said. If I was going to start deleting they mostly be gone by now.

Lauren Stone
Lauren Stone

We do not vaccinate, Period. Vaccines are ineffective at best and deadly dangerous at worst.

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Lauren Stone

and that's why millions of people are alive today and fully vaccinated, and all those diseases that used to be so common are now in a decline. do you lot just ignore the concept of logic entirely, or simply have no grasp of it? /derp

Jared Hyams
Jared Hyams
  • Lauren Stone

that is the 'death' rate... Look at the 'incidence' rate.. Drops off right around the vaccine introduction..
The reason these 'death' graphs look so good to anti-vaccine webpages is that they mislead the reader.... 'Death' rates of people with the disease declined because medical treatment was improving, meaning the risk of death when you had caught the disease was reduced. Anti-vax sites don't like to show the 'incidence' graphs because the number of people catching the disease fell away to almost 0 after vaccines are introduced..

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Lauren Stone

Christopher Panzer indeed, mortality from those diseases was in decline. incidences, however, were not. incidences of diseases did not decline in a substantial manner until after the vaccine was introduced. and as long as there are incidences, then the diseases are allowed to continue to incubate and threaten people's lives

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Lauren Stone

and please, a homeopath claiming to be an expert of any kind on "advanced medicine"... that is a joke, right?

Lauren Stone
Lauren Stone
  • Lauren Stone

Good hygiene and sanitation has done more to improve people's health and cut down on disease than any vaccine ever has.

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Lauren Stone

No, it only went so far as to reduce mortality. Vaccines have reduced incidence, and can do so to the point where vaccine preventable diseases can be wiped out entirely.

Don Carter
Don Carter

Please Parents,

Make sure you have your doctor or health care provider administer the recommended vaccines to your children. The recommended schedule is posted by the CDC. Children more than adults are in larger groups of individual people at schools and at public places. Vaccines for children are approved by all major health care providers. You take more risk by not having your children vaccinated according to recommend schedules than you can absolutely know.

Mistie Delorey
Mistie Delorey
  • Don Carter

That depends on the child Don Carter.

Lori Harvey
Lori Harvey
  • Don Carter

You want to vaccinate your kids & take chances with the toxins go right ahead BUT don't tell me what to do with my kids. Neither one of my kids have had their vaccines & they are healthier than their counter parts in school.

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Don Carter

Are you privy to the private medical records of the kids at school to confirm this assertion? Perhaps such a comparison is beyond your current knowledge base, and you should reconsider what you think you know. On that matter, I'm sure you're about to tell me you've "done your research," as we all have, but I would wonder how much you've analysed that research. All research requires critical analysis and synthesis in order to form a truly informed opinion.

Dianna Donnelly
Dianna Donnelly
  • Don Carter

Martin Bouckaert : Out of curiosity, do you also agree with the over-medicating of our youth for supposed behavior issues etc? ADD ADHD ASD

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Don Carter

I don't agree with overmedicating anyone. However, determining if someone is being "overmedicated" is a matter for professionals to determine. For example, if you feel a child from another family, for example, is "overmedicated", but you are not professionally qualified to determine so, then for one thing it's none of your business whatsoever, and for another, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Dianna Donnelly
Dianna Donnelly
  • Don Carter

that's exactly how they want you to think. Congrats you're a grad A student.

Mistie Delorey
Mistie Delorey

How is going in for vaccines and their potential adverse reactions in "hopes" that you "MAY gain immunity, any different from people pulling straws to see who will be sacrificed or maimed for their gods in hopes of warding off plagues thousands of years ago? all for the "BELIEF" that you, yourself will be better off.

Andrea Leong
Andrea Leong
  • Mistie Delorey

I wonder how the introduction of vaccines correlate with morbidity of the diseases they protect against: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151241056333588

But i guess it's no better than a 50-50 gamble, right?

Lara Lohne
Lara Lohne
  • Mistie Delorey

Show us the study where adverse reaction is more severe and more common from vaccines then from the diseases they prevent. Please provide the title, dates and journal of the PubMed indexed papers. If you can not provide that data, then your entire statement or query will be better served turned back on your position and belief.

Lynne Batik
Lynne Batik
  • Mistie Delorey

The fact that vaccines actually work to interrupt the transmission of disease, and are far less damaging than the diseases, clearly escapes your understanding.

Mistie Delorey
Mistie Delorey
  • Mistie Delorey

There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunization of children does more harm than good.” -
Dr J Anthony Morris, former Chief Vaccine Control Officer and research virologist, US FDA.

Dianna Donnelly
Dianna Donnelly

I love that in Canada I can choose! So go on exhausting yourselves like wing-seeking angels helping us ignorant backwards thinkers to see the truth. IS THIS A SCHOOL PROJECT MARTY? ANDREA? Or do you work for this VACCINE INITIATIVE group? At least if you were getting paid I could see some point in your blind following. Either way, good luck on the project. I hope you get graded well.

Off to make some more choices and spread the truth about this VACCINE SCAM big Pharma is playing...

I love that in Canada I can choose! So go on exhausting yourselves like wing-seeking angels helping us ignorant backwards thinkers to see the truth. IS THIS A SCHOOL PROJECT MARTY? ANDREA? Or do you work for this VACCINE INITIATIVE group? At least if you were getting paid I could see some point in your blind following. Either way, good luck on the project. I hope you get graded well.

Off to make some more choices and spread the truth about this VACCINE SCAM big Pharma is playing right now.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A GUINEA PIG TO BIG PHARMA! THEY ARE USING YOUR FOR THEIR PROFIT.

Andrea Leong
Andrea Leong
  • Dianna Donnelly

What "vaccine initiative group"? I just believe in evidence.

Just to let everyone know what I do: I'm doing a PhD on anti-bacterial surfaces, i.e. surfaces which kill pathogens on contact, reducing the need for antibiotics. My experiments have hit a slow patch, which is how I find enough time to waste here. Never mind though, I'm out --- the discussion on this page has descended too far into lunacy.

My only income is my scholarship, which the Australian government, in their wisdom, set at...

What "vaccine initiative group"? I just believe in evidence.

Just to let everyone know what I do: I'm doing a PhD on anti-bacterial surfaces, i.e. surfaces which kill pathogens on contact, reducing the need for antibiotics. My experiments have hit a slow patch, which is how I find enough time to waste here. Never mind though, I'm out --- the discussion on this page has descended too far into lunacy.

My only income is my scholarship, which the Australian government, in their wisdom, set at about 101% of the poverty line, plus payment for a little bit of undergrad tutoring.

Dianna Donnelly
Dianna Donnelly
  • Dianna Donnelly

Hmmmm .... good deflection Addy!! no worries about my doses of EMR honey!!

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Dianna Donnelly

Not while you've got your tinfoil hat on, no. You should be perfectly fine

/derp

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Dianna Donnelly

You're nuts. If you ever wonder why people don't take you seriously, you can stop - it's because you're nuts. Most likely not worth paying any attention to whatsoever.

Lisa Brooker
Lisa Brooker

Why would you not want to take every precaution that in the longrun will be better for your child throughout their lives. Where is the logic in not protecting your child in every possible way? There's no way I would even consider to not vaccinate my children. I would rather not take the risk thank you.

Bridie Burke
Bridie Burke
  • Lisa Brooker

Because they control your mind with the microchips they put in the vaccinations. Obviously! (sarcasm!)

Lisa Brooker
Lisa Brooker
  • Lisa Brooker

I used my sense. I had vaccines and i have never suffered anything bad never even had the flu. Why not blame life instead of blaming vaccines if something bad has happened to your child or children or oher parents. Bad things happen in life that you can never get an explanation for. I c alot of figures on how many children were ill by something they were vaccinated against.. But could someone please show me the figures of how many unvaccinated children suffer from not having their vaccines??

Lisa Brooker
Lisa Brooker
  • Lisa Brooker

I also decided to trust the professionals who have spent alot of time in studying to do their job properly. They are there to help.. Not inject our babies wih drugs and needles just for he sake of it

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Lisa Brooker

EXACTLY!!! It's all well and good to do your own research, but there are professionals out there who do what they do with far superior training. Did you know that in my first year of university, I received training in how to do research and analysis? Unfortunately, I've only noticed courses like that in tertiary education, so as you can imagine I'm a strong proponent for moving that kind of learning into high school.

We do put a lot of trust in our doctors, but regardless of anti-vaccine...

EXACTLY!!! It's all well and good to do your own research, but there are professionals out there who do what they do with far superior training. Did you know that in my first year of university, I received training in how to do research and analysis? Unfortunately, I've only noticed courses like that in tertiary education, so as you can imagine I'm a strong proponent for moving that kind of learning into high school.

We do put a lot of trust in our doctors, but regardless of anti-vaccine opinion, many of us won't do so blindly. We DO ask questions of our doctors. Just last week, I went into a doctor knowing I'd likely need a blood test, but I HATE needles (yep, even vaccines, I have a phobia of needles that causes my blood pressure to rise whenever I know one's coming and causes me to even faint sometimes - perfectly normal reaction, not one caused by what's in the needle). So I asked my doctor if there was another way, if this was really necessary. He convinced me it was, and I trusted him. And everything worked out just fine. Apart from that I fainted again.

They do the science so we don't have to. Farmers do the hunting and gathering so that WE DON'T HAVE TO. Engineers build the bridges so that WE DON'T HAVE TO. Are you going to do your research on a bridge before you decide to cross it, or do you just trust the engineers behind it's design? Why is it that the pharmaceutical industry is the only one that needs questioning?

What about the electricians and electrical engineers that installed the wiring in your house? Hope you've done your research on that so you know what you're dealing with there.

What about the foundations? Are you CERTAIN the builder got the dimensions right?

We have professionals for a reason. And we have regulators watching over them for the same reason. So what happens when regulation goes wrong?

Well, it only takes one person to notice something going wrong, and then an investigation is held. Evidence is gathered, questions are asked - and that's why Andrew Wakefield was exposed as a fraud, and Drs Paul Offit and Ian Frazer are not in jail for murder. Wakefield did bad, very bad, and our vaccine inventors didn't.

Derek Brown
Derek Brown

I view vaccinations as a human rights violation.

Scott Hansen
Scott Hansen
  • Derek Brown

Protecting people against diseases that have the ability to kill is a human rights violation?

Really?

o.O

Jared Hyams
Jared Hyams
  • Derek Brown

I view stupid as a disease

Derek Brown
Derek Brown
  • Derek Brown

Jared Hyams i find it rather amusing when someone confuses imbecilic taunts with intelligence

Martin Bouckaert
Martin Bouckaert
  • Derek Brown

Derek M Brown I find it amusing when someone confuses a tried-and-true and historically and scientifically proven medical procedure as a human rights violation. If you want to talk about rights violations, then what are you doing about parents who are intentionally infecting their children with things like chicken pox and measles to "build their immune systems" while simultaneously endangering them to either immediate or later-in-life serious complications from those diseases?

You want to...

Derek M Brown I find it amusing when someone confuses a tried-and-true and historically and scientifically proven medical procedure as a human rights violation. If you want to talk about rights violations, then what are you doing about parents who are intentionally infecting their children with things like chicken pox and measles to "build their immune systems" while simultaneously endangering them to either immediate or later-in-life serious complications from those diseases?

You want to talk about human rights? How about our right to live in a community that has some sense of social duty to others by getting their vaccines to prevent the spread of diseases that have, both in recent and not-as-recent history, killed hundreds of thousands to millions, such as smallpox or polio.

As far as I'm concerned, choosing not to protect yourself against these diseases is choosing to allow them a place to incubate at all - this could be construed as "harbouring the enemy". I would suggest, even, an act of terrorism against your community. But let's not go to extremes...

Oh, wait... you already have with your declaration of a "human rights violation" regarding a medical procedure that still requires adult permission to deliver.

I think Jared got it right - seems pretty intelligent to me, even if it was just a "taunt", the fact that he was on the money tells me he's not confused at all.

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