Takahiro Katsumi
Takahiro Katsumi

I'm sorry, No.

Intelligence does NOT justify whether we kill animals or not. We kill and eat to survive, or we kill and use them to live off of them. That's why all Japanese say "itadakimasu" before we have them--regardless of religious affiliation--to show gratitude and respect for any living thing that has been taken its life, including plants, and also say "gochisousama" to thank anyone who was involved in preparing the meal. We've been doing this since before most Western civilization.

...

I'm sorry, No.

Intelligence does NOT justify whether we kill animals or not. We kill and eat to survive, or we kill and use them to live off of them. That's why all Japanese say "itadakimasu" before we have them--regardless of religious affiliation--to show gratitude and respect for any living thing that has been taken its life, including plants, and also say "gochisousama" to thank anyone who was involved in preparing the meal. We've been doing this since before most Western civilization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette_in_Japan#Eating_and_drinking

Intelligence should not be the measure to treat animals differently. In fact there shouldn't be any measure to treat animals differently, NOT their size, NOT their utility, NOT their intelligence.

Why do we, as humans, forbid ourselves to kill each other? It is NOT because we are intelligent beings. It is because murder is killing of our own species and it is AGAINST our nature. It is unnatural for us human beings to kill each other.

Crying out for justice for only certain animals based on its intelligence, to me, is a great hypocrisy. So I DO NOT recognize dolphins as non-human persons. We have to live with our cruelty. That in our culture is deemed as acceptance of our KARMA (sinfulness).

Malk A Zoid
Malk A Zoid
  • Takahiro Katsumi

Cetacean personhood is not only based on intelligence.

I would also challenge the notion that it is unnatural for humans to kill each other: everything in our history screams to the contrary.

The notion that we have to live with our cruelty is the perfect excuse to make no effort to be less cruel.

Takahiro Katsumi
Takahiro Katsumi
  • Takahiro Katsumi

I respect your opinion. However I still refute it.

'Unnatural' here means it is "against the nature", not of human beings, but nature. No other animal kill each other for the sake of killing. Only us. That's why we have laws to prevent ourselves from committing the mortal sins of murder.

It's part of living with ourselves, imperfect as we are, not as the divine being originally designed us, to accept our human nature, instincts, need, sinfulness within the boundaries of law.

That...

I respect your opinion. However I still refute it.

'Unnatural' here means it is "against the nature", not of human beings, but nature. No other animal kill each other for the sake of killing. Only us. That's why we have laws to prevent ourselves from committing the mortal sins of murder.

It's part of living with ourselves, imperfect as we are, not as the divine being originally designed us, to accept our human nature, instincts, need, sinfulness within the boundaries of law.

That distinguishes us from other living things. That we abide by the law and we get punished by the law, and we exercise restraint under the law. Moral and ethical judgment is solely up to the individual and we have our own choices in making these judgments.

Malk A Zoid
Malk A Zoid
  • Takahiro Katsumi

It is not possible to judge whether it is against or in favor of nature that human beings kill each other. There are valid arguments in both directions. The only clear fact is that we have made a pact - a civilizing pact - by which to kill each other is outlawed. Not because it is unnatural to kill each other, but because we saw it to be in our interest to do so.

Yes - we are imperfect. Yes we have our own choices in making moral and ethical judgments. I respect Japan's sovereignty to...

It is not possible to judge whether it is against or in favor of nature that human beings kill each other. There are valid arguments in both directions. The only clear fact is that we have made a pact - a civilizing pact - by which to kill each other is outlawed. Not because it is unnatural to kill each other, but because we saw it to be in our interest to do so.

Yes - we are imperfect. Yes we have our own choices in making moral and ethical judgments. I respect Japan's sovereignty to decide its conduct towards cetaceans. What I hope is that Japan will remain truly open to our developing understanding of cetaceans and the implications of those developments in how we behave towards them. There is honor in treating intelligent personalities the way they treat us, and the way we would want to be treated.

Jelca Bruigom
Jelca Bruigom
  • Takahiro Katsumi

Its much simpler, it doesn't matter what Japanese tradition has always done to justify the way they kill or choices they make: its about it being not accepted by the rest of the world,
why: not because of intelligence or being sort of human...but because in most cultures all creatures should be regarded as being important enough in itself to be treated with respect and the way these killings take place show non of this, on the other hand; its a real heartless slaughter field without any form...

Its much simpler, it doesn't matter what Japanese tradition has always done to justify the way they kill or choices they make: its about it being not accepted by the rest of the world,
why: not because of intelligence or being sort of human...but because in most cultures all creatures should be regarded as being important enough in itself to be treated with respect and the way these killings take place show non of this, on the other hand; its a real heartless slaughter field without any form of compassion.
Its simply forgotten in this handling of dolphins that they are dealing with living creatures that feel pain and have family ties and any other comparing issues to any living being. Don't worry : I could kill a bug though...if it bugs me.

Jelca Bruigom
Jelca Bruigom
  • Takahiro Katsumi

Takahiro Katsumi We humans make that law, that's why they are often wrong. They fit those who make them. There is a natural law that asks any person to think for himself about right and wrong: so laws are no definite boundaries, why do you think we chance laws regularly. through time. Just a matter of introspection.
All countries have different laws, they differ in history and learn from each other, some places however forget that they'll need global approval for their economical...

Takahiro Katsumi We humans make that law, that's why they are often wrong. They fit those who make them. There is a natural law that asks any person to think for himself about right and wrong: so laws are no definite boundaries, why do you think we chance laws regularly. through time. Just a matter of introspection.
All countries have different laws, they differ in history and learn from each other, some places however forget that they'll need global approval for their economical extortion. Those that will not accept influence from outside will be left on their own when it comes to it in time.

Mike Adamson
Mike Adamson
  • Takahiro Katsumi

Malk has said it concisely and correectly. Bringing religion into the discussion serves only to cloud the issue. If in the end Japan stands alone in murdering nonhuman persons, how should the rest of the world treat Japan? How could we in consience still treat with Japan as an equal when by our own moral standards the nation has enshrined muder? We could not possibly do so. Japan would declare itself an enemy of human civilisation as a whole. By the way, how like a Japanese to be the dissenting voice in this.

Mike Adamson
Mike Adamson
  • Takahiro Katsumi

I think perhaps I was misreading Mr Takahiro's comments, and if so I tender my appologies at once. What I believe he was saying is that we should treat animals kindly on the basis of their own inherrenrt value, not one of ascribing value to them on some arbitrary human scale. This is a compassionate outlook, however it also encompasses the decision to trat them in mechanistic, exploitative ways. It is a philosophic outlook and I believe he is saying that Japan has the right to deal with the...

I think perhaps I was misreading Mr Takahiro's comments, and if so I tender my appologies at once. What I believe he was saying is that we should treat animals kindly on the basis of their own inherrenrt value, not one of ascribing value to them on some arbitrary human scale. This is a compassionate outlook, however it also encompasses the decision to trat them in mechanistic, exploitative ways. It is a philosophic outlook and I believe he is saying that Japan has the right to deal with the world around it precisely as it wishes on the basis of this philosophy, and that if that includes killing dolphins and whales, so be it. The bottom line is no different, but it is easier to understand the motivation. Also, it would be fair to point out that Mr Takahiro's comments are an opinion that not all of his countrymen will share, and there is bound to be a conflict of outlook inside Japan itself on this issue.

Takahiro Katsumi
Takahiro Katsumi
  • Takahiro Katsumi

Jelca Bruigom > What a coincidence, Jelca. I couldn't kill a bug but only help it.
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/givingtree/9352249.html
(It's in Japanese but I think you'll get the message)

This is not about tradition but culture and what is embedded within us as cultural value. Why are cattles mutilated mercilessly and why do we accept that it is conducted without any compassion, almost mechanically, and also in enormous sum? Because we consume them. We treat cattles and dolphins the same...

Jelca Bruigom > What a coincidence, Jelca. I couldn't kill a bug but only help it.
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/givingtree/9352249.html
(It's in Japanese but I think you'll get the message)

This is not about tradition but culture and what is embedded within us as cultural value. Why are cattles mutilated mercilessly and why do we accept that it is conducted without any compassion, almost mechanically, and also in enormous sum? Because we consume them. We treat cattles and dolphins the same because some of us eat them or process them for something else--in other words, we consume them. We treat all of them equally and not prejudice them on any special traits; e.g. intelligence.

On laws of the nations, I do agree that laws differ and laws become obsolete. And under international, as long as a sovereign nation accepts to be bound by it, that nation should uphold the law. So if Japan is to become part of a convention or treaty, which is approved by our legislature, then I expect my country to uphold whatever is in that customary law. But if it is not a law, then as a sovereign nation there is NO obligation to be bound by it. This is called rule of law.

Takahiro Katsumi
Takahiro Katsumi
  • Takahiro Katsumi

Mike Adamson > If your apology was intended for your misinterpretation of "religion" having to do with my opinion, I wholly accept it. Because it is NOT about religion, or tradition, but about our cultural root, and I expect you to respect this as much as you respect that of your native Aborigines.

You're correct in assuming that I'm against and resent the hypocritical application of 'arbitrary human scale' to different types of animal based on some newly discovered trait, e.g....

Mike Adamson > If your apology was intended for your misinterpretation of "religion" having to do with my opinion, I wholly accept it. Because it is NOT about religion, or tradition, but about our cultural root, and I expect you to respect this as much as you respect that of your native Aborigines.

You're correct in assuming that I'm against and resent the hypocritical application of 'arbitrary human scale' to different types of animal based on some newly discovered trait, e.g. intelligence. This is not about compassion but objectivism based on our cultural belief and the idea of universal fairness. We don't treat dolphins or whales any different from other cattles that we consume through, as you described, "mechanistic, exploitative ways", that are employed in many parts of the civilized world in a massive scale, because not all of us but some of us still eat them or process them (consume them) for other use and we respect that.

In fact we question the rest of the world for all of the sudden coming up with the notion that cataceans, among other species, should be now treated differently. Catacean or not, we don't treat them any differently from other cattles, But at the same time, we accept the karma (wrong doing) of our fellow and divine creatures and for that reason we Japanese say "Itadakimasu" before every single meal and end the meal saying "Gochisousama" to show our respect for the food we consume into our body. And parents teach their children to never leave any leftovers to respect the blessings of those divine creatures. As I said, in Japan, all living things are divine, including plants and vegetables.

The world "karma" or "gou" used commonly in Japan does NOT nececessarily connote the Buddhist value but more of the animistic value that we enshrine as our cultural root. It means that we accept the wrong doing and we live with it. It is, however, true that these cultural values have been in many ways diluted in today's Japan, but they are still deep within us. That's what culture is about. Not religion. It is these deeply culturally rooted values that define our (Japanese) natural behavior and ideas. I think the same goes for all of you.

Takahiro Katsumi
Takahiro Katsumi
  • Takahiro Katsumi

Malk A Zoid I wholly accept and even support your first argument that it is the rule of law that bounds us humans now from not killing each other.

And I believe and hope our national delegations will remain open to your "developing understanding of cetaceans" in the legal stage. I am a supporter and promoter of international judicial institutions (such as the International Criminal Court) that bring justice on a worldwide scale to crimes committed under the rule of law. IF the developing...

Malk A Zoid I wholly accept and even support your first argument that it is the rule of law that bounds us humans now from not killing each other.

And I believe and hope our national delegations will remain open to your "developing understanding of cetaceans" in the legal stage. I am a supporter and promoter of international judicial institutions (such as the International Criminal Court) that bring justice on a worldwide scale to crimes committed under the rule of law. IF the developing understanding of cetaceans become the basis of a new international law and IF our government chooses to be a part of it then I expect my government to respect and uphold the law.

But I seriously doubt that there is honor "in treating intelligent personalities the way they treat us, and the way we would want to be treated," because THEY don't treat us in any ways but at best interact on an individual basis. We do not stand on equal footing with them because only WE can treat them and THEY can't. We can only wish and hope they want to be treated as we treat them, and I believe these are being proven through scientific research and observations by measuring their level of stress and behavior under stressful conditions. But that still doesn't put as on equal footing by just changing the way we treat them.

Christine Wushke
Christine Wushke

I really hope that 500 years from now humanity will be shocked that we could have ever done such a thing.

Mariya Doncheva
Mariya Doncheva
  • Christine Wushke

Dolphins are here to re-MIND US (Unified Souls) of our Telepathic Abilities! Any form of ab-USE to them takes us back into the darkest lowest shadows of our consciousness! And it is still the male Mind that doesn't get it! Wake up, patriarchs! A-Men!

Betty Engelbrecht
Betty Engelbrecht
  • Christine Wushke

Dolphins are of the most intelegent of the Sentient beings on this planet. More sensitive than humans. If you think we treat dolphins badly just take a look at how we treat others of our own kind. It is a sad reflection but too true. I have seen dolphins out in the bay when boating and their sheer joy at being alive leaves me envious.

Christine Wushke
Christine Wushke
  • Christine Wushke

I really hope that 500 years from now humanity will be shocked that we could have ever done such a thing.

Sam Chahda
Sam Chahda
  • Christine Wushke

I think things will be very different much sooner than that. We will be as shocked as we are now when we look back at slavery.

Christine Wushke
Christine Wushke
  • Christine Wushke

That was my exact thought. It seems so foreign and crazy to think that we would ever keep humans as slaves. I think treating animals inhumanly is rapidly becoming a thing of the past too.

Jelca Bruigom
Jelca Bruigom
  • Christine Wushke

I wish that would be now, for its been shocking for quiet a long time already.

Mike Adamson
Mike Adamson
  • Christine Wushke

I dream that a day will come that, despite persistent legends, no one believes we could ever have abused the other races of our world...

Porsche Indrisie-Fisher
Porsche Indrisie-Fisher
  • Christine Wushke

Why wait 500 years?

William Schwarz
William Schwarz
  • Christine Wushke

I hope so too! And did you see Takashiros response? Very interesting the arrogant rationalization they live by regarding killing intelligent life. As is thanking it makes it ok.... If it weren't so sad it would be funny.

Anna Novikov
Anna Novikov

I am embarrassed to admit that until 4-5 years ago, I wasn't aware of many of the dreadful things some humans do to dolphins and other sea creatures... Causes such as this, posted on Facebook, peaked my interest, and I started to read articles and found out more... and more.... and more.... Oh how little light of compassion and understanding there is in the hearts and minds of mankind.... How blind we are to the plight of living beings -- even humans.... May we find a way to contribute more...

I am embarrassed to admit that until 4-5 years ago, I wasn't aware of many of the dreadful things some humans do to dolphins and other sea creatures... Causes such as this, posted on Facebook, peaked my interest, and I started to read articles and found out more... and more.... and more.... Oh how little light of compassion and understanding there is in the hearts and minds of mankind.... How blind we are to the plight of living beings -- even humans.... May we find a way to contribute more of the milk of human kindness to dolphins and other living creatures....This is a good beginning....

Erin Rae
Erin Rae
  • Anna Novikov

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Anwar Sadaat
Anwar Sadaat
  • Anna Novikov

Anna! I too was unaware of such dreadful things, even till today.

Kenny Williams
Kenny Williams
  • Anna Novikov

Your not alone Anna. I was in the same boat.

Jelca Bruigom
Jelca Bruigom
  • Anna Novikov

Kenny Williams: a good thing you weren't at the cave in a fisher boat, have you seen the movie yet....it just won't stop.

Riccardo Miranda
Riccardo Miranda
  • Anna Novikov

Anna don't be sad can assure you than dolfins and others species sometimes die old and if you see god will ending is up to you only, this great odontocete can manage to live in every seas and ocean the mediterranean is preety warm and as smart fish they prefer to swim there.....if the water temperature decrease sometimes they do not get flu.

Razia Mohamedali
Razia Mohamedali

Why would ANY sane person want to harm these lovely harmless creaturs... Shame on them!

Jelca Bruigom
Jelca Bruigom
  • Razia Mohamedali

Because many makes people monstrous idiots.

Jelca Bruigom
Jelca Bruigom
  • Razia Mohamedali

not many but money and many (much) money even worse.

Eagle Spirit
Eagle Spirit

Dolphins have the closest minds to us! Help Save up to 50,000 of them annually! They're Siriusly psychic and fifth dimensionally+ heart-kinected, here to show us pure bliss! We must let them live on!
PS I <3 the Founder's contact :)
www.EaglesforGlobalPeace.com
https://www.facebook.com/EaglesForGlobalPeace

Zofia Szarzyńska
Zofia Szarzyńska

Delfiny powinne żyć w naturalnym środowisku, jestem przeciwna ich zamykaniu w akwenach!

Neilson Äpple
Neilson Äpple

I truly believe in this petition and in the Declaration for Cetacean Rights: Dolphins, Porpoises and Whales.I have been long hoping for Dolphins to be recognized in order to get International Laws and Agreements for their protection worldwide. We all need to keep working for this. Thank you!

Kenny Williams
Kenny Williams

Please sign and share with others.

Malk A Zoid
Malk A Zoid

thanks very much for this link. I am supportive of the sentiment of the petition, but unfortunately it is poorly worded and misleading on a few levels. Can I encourage you to go straight to the source and sign the Declaration of Cetacean Rights?

http://www.cetaceanrights.org/

I think it is more powerful for everyone to get behind the declaration, which was very carefully prepared by scientists, legal experts and philosophers... Perhaps you have signed it already, in which case just ignore me! Please pass it on if you have not already.

Mike Adamson
Mike Adamson
  • Malk A Zoid

Thanks for that link -- have signed at once.

Ruth Leibowitz
Ruth Leibowitz

This practice is totally heartbreaking, & totally shameful. These creatures are so sweet, & beauitiful, & anonyne that would harm these presious creatures, has a cold, & evil heart, for these are God's special, & wonderful creations, & the Lord will punish those who harm his marvelous wild, & natural beauty.

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