Chinese Military Aircraft Make Large Incursion Into Taiwan's Air Defense Zone - ‘Ukraine May Be East Asia Tomorrow’

Thinking that the best way to deal with Chinese expansionism is exactly the same way that the democratic world of nations has rightfully chosen to deal with the putin is wrong, or at least aspects of these approaches are wrong and will likely fail.  The underlying factors driving the putin’s expansionism into Ukraine and the Baltic States are mostly quite different than China’s expansionism into the South China Sea and threat to Taiwan, even though there are common economic undertones to each.The putin’s war to expunge Ukrainian Culture and take over their lands is about preserving ‘his’ legacy by rebuilding some the Soviet Union, wantonly killing civilians and Ukraine for daring to oppose him and the often less cited, but very real greed that dominates Russian governance. 

Ukraine is believed to have vast stores of untapped accessible mineral resources, including strategic minerals that Russia does not, very productive arable lands that makes Ukraine the world’s second largest exporter of wheat, and easily accessible conveniently placed sea ports for export to Europe and Africa. Russia’s only really profitable product is fossil fuels, the market for which will be decreasing year by year. 

While the putin is definitely ‘crazy’, I do not believe he is stupid. Without other products for Russia to export, there won’t be enough funds to support the Russian kleptocracy. (I believe this is also the reason that the putin has built military bases that encircle the Arctic - to lay claim both to mineral resources and to profitable new shipping routes once the Arctic ice melts.) 

A lot of the budgeted resources that were  announced as investments in upgrading Russia’s military is the reason that the world feared Russia’s military might. However, in fact, these ‘investments’ were largely diverted by the kleptocracy directly into the putin’s pockets and the oligarchy - because kleptocratic greed is the basis of Russia’s governance. This is not true for China. 

Much the wealth that China has generated in the last forty years of spectacular economic growth has been re-invested into the Chinese people. Pictures of Chinese people on of same streets I visited forty-five years ago show a much greater affluence, of the type that would have only be seen then in tourists visiting from Hong Kong.  The roads in Shanghai were populated with relatively few cars or trucks and many, many bicycles. The buildings were kind of shabby and upper floors were dominated by clothes lines strung between buildings - and not the modern construction seen today. 

It is true that much of China’s economic wealth was generated by overt and covert means to steal trade secrets from the west, and China’s ability to demand unbalanced trade agreements which they insisted upon, particularly as China became the source of more and more of the world’s manufacturing. 

Their manufacturing capability has been greatly aided  by China’s unethical co-opting of trade secrets but has also been the result of the result of China’s ‘peace dividend’ gained by not engaging in any military conflict since the Korean War, their huge investment in educating their large population, the sheer number of educated and skilled people eager to gain a more affluent life and factories that can produce twenty four hours a day seven days a week if needed. (At least forty-five years ago, this was not child labor nor forced labor and while factories worked seven days a week, the workers individually only worked five day shifts in overlapping schedules.) 

China used these resources and exploited the greed of the unregulated free market at scale (which is not capitalistically competitive) to capture the manufacturing of most drugs and their precursor materials, much of the high end consumer and high tech commodities, and many consumer goods generally.  They have also invested heavily in securing mining rights to rare earths around the world which are critical to high end electronics, advanced instrumentation as well as efficient high torque electric motors and energy storage systems for electric vehicles. China has continued to invest in advanced science and quietly in advanced military capabilities. They are now leading the world in several scientific areas such as large scale distributed AI systems (which they use largely to monitor their population and reward people who adhere to and support party goals). 

They have demonstrated deep sea remotely piloted submersibles observed hovering portions of the Atlantic cable at depths which cannot be reached any other way, where the cables could potentially be tapped or cut. They have also demonstrated the ability to quantum entangle a satellite receiver with a ground based transmitter which could easily be adapted for physically ‘unbreakable’ secure point to point confidential communication - a big benefit for military operations. Contrast that with the Navy’s method for ensured confidentially between fleet groups by helicoptering and dropping sandbags continuing fleet directives on the decks of fleet leading vessels (I am not critical of this approach per se, because it is a safe and effective means of secure communications without worrying about keeping complex electronic systems operational). 

My point is that while Russia and China are both autocratic they are quite different from one and other in practice; and the mindset needed and methods for resolving geo-political issues with China must be approached quite differently.

My near month long visit and many side-conversations with individual Chinese people and our communist party hosts around the country highlighted some important and seemingly universal belief’s. First, our team’s visit was in response to their delegation’s visit as part of the last vestiges of ‘ping pong diplomacy’. Our technical leader had taken the unusual steps and assumed some personal expense to take their technical group around the country, particularly to the national parks so they could see America and Americans. If I recall correctly, he even invited them to his home for a cook-out. Their leadership felt honor bound to return the favor and they took us deep into the mountains to see some pristine mountain lakes, extremely rugged terrain and trees (which had been sacrificed in more populated areas - along with bird populations due to Mao’s prior drive industrialize using community based factories). We went from Shanghai to the deep interior, at one point actually north of the Tibetan Plateau, and through several northern cities to Shen Yang (terra cotta army and valley of the tombs of ancient emperors)and ending in Beijing - saw temples with wooden archways that have been standing for over 2,500 years, a variety of parks, historic sites along long march road, local community gatherings to watch youth basketball games, some universities and even local elementary school recesses.

The people generally and our communist party hosts all were driven to act very honorably on an interpersonal level. Our very enlightening trip was the result. When I saw a photographer taking pictures at a final dinner with some more senior party members having trouble with his electronic flash, I motioned him to come over and gave him a fresh pack of batteries so he could finish. He thanked me in Chinese and a day later tracked me down in a different area so he could hand deliver a replacement pack of batteries). 

All of the people I saw and talked to were extremely proud of their cultural heritage and have developed a strong resentment of the times that they feel that their country was exploited by imperialist invaders who did not appreciate who they were nor their cultural identity.

Wherever our group went, the first question was who was the oldest and youngest. I was the youngest and had a lot of extra attention as did our oldest. Observations indicated a strong desire to protect the development of their youth and the life experience of their eldest - not the culture that could endorse the ‘child-labor’ fantasies being promoted by nay-sayers. 

My reason for going though all of this is to try to explain why I feel a somewhat different approach is warranted for addressing Chinese expansionism than that of dealing with Russia. The issue regarding Taiwan’s sovereignty from China is a long-standing issue. Recent events affecting the perspectives of PRC’s leadership arise from recent geo-political events, costly mis-managed trade wars, mistakes of US administrations, ethnic slurs by the trump and a much more educated and aging population better prepared and able to question the central government.

Geo-political issues include the Uyghur’s earlier bombings in retaliation for suppressed rights, the Arab spring rights-based uprisings, and Hong Kong’s clearly visible and attractive more democratic governance. China’s very successful long term efforts to use capitalistic principals (called ‘entrepreneurism’ by China) to greatly expand their economy by rewarding successful risk takers resulted in visible wealthy elite who were emboldened to challenge Central Party rule and edicts. Xi saw all of these things as a threat to the ‘order’ that was largely responsible for China’s economic success and began to crack down on all of those ‘threats’. 

While it was proper to address the US trade imbalances with China, the trump’s might-makes-right bulldozer diplomacy was and was seen as dishonorable and disrespectful of China’s formidable accomplishments in becoming the world’s second largest economy (despite a lot of overt and covert Chinese efforts to steal profitable trade secrets to service the unregulated free market economy in moving most of the world’s manufacturing to China). I think that the racial slurs by the trump and his unfounded allegations that China manufactured Covid as a tool to threaten the west was kind of a ‘last straw’ moment which pushed the PRC to become more resolved to ignore the world’s detractors and re-energize their long ambitions and steady preparations of military bases on artificial islands in contested waters of the South China Sea. The recent flights into Taiwan’s airspace and close encounters of ‘buzzing’ US aircraft and naval ships are all to test the limits to which they can safely go. The Biden administration made an error by not trying to normalize relations with China and using honest, open diplomacy to find ways to fairly and openly reset trade relations with China.

The only reasonable way forward is an honest, open, equitable and respectful negotiation backed up by an allied effort which could threaten China’s economic success derived from manufacturing most of the world’s products - by not needing to buy them  from China any more. Kind of a lose-lose proposition for everyone involved but devastating to China’s future economic growth. 

China is testing the waters. I'm afraid Xi Jinping is cut from the same cloth as Putin. The world response will determine the outcome both in Ukraine & Taiwan. 

Crimea & Tibet were the first successful attempts to overtake sovereign nations. Hong Kong was a bonus for Xi. 

I would really like to know what the plan is to develop and manufacture semiconductor chips in the USA? If China gets Taiwan, they get this technology...which is in almost all phones, cars, computers, military equipment, etc.  So, just what is the plan?

China think that World War III with nuclear weapons is a winner for them, which all it will do, is make the ones that did die right away, the rest it will make a slow death from radiation poisoning for the rest of the world! The world has enough to kill the world three times over. There are no winners in any war of any kind, only looser on both sides. Russia May win the battle which doesn't look good at this time, but Russia will never win the war! China has the same problem.

One of many occurrences except this time it’s conveniently timed concurrent with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and frequent Russian incursions into NATO airspace. 

Only 100 miles separate Taiwan from China and both countries have defined defense zones that overlap each other’s which is bound to create conflict.

Seems like both China & Russia are testing boundaries, checking responses & response times.

US needs to be careful to:

1) Distinguish between incursion into Taiwan airspace versus Taiwan Defense Zone which over laps the Chinese Defense Zone as only 100 miles separates the 2 countries

2) getting distracted or spreading efforts too thin by engaging regional alliances and Allies to take the lead and for the US to stay in a supporting role.
 
History

Sep 2020 Taiwan starts reporting on Chinese incursions of airspace

Sep 2021 - an incursion every day, and 1 day with a total of 117 sorties.

10-4-21  56 Chinese warplanes flew into Taiwan's Air Defense Identification Zone 

Nov 2021 - 159 incursions into Taiwan's air defence zone (149 of which were made over just four days as Beijing marked its annual National Day)

1-23-22  39 Chinese warplanes in Taiwan’s air defence identification zone

NOTE: Taiwan defense zone is not the same as Taiwan's territorial airspace as it includes a larger area that overlaps with part of China's own air defence identification zone.

https://www.statista.com/chart/24620/chinese-military-aircraft-entering-taiwans-adiz/

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211201-china-s-taiwan-jet-incursions-at-second-highest-level-in-november

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/24/china-sends-largest-incursion-of-warplanes-into-taiwan-defence-zone-since-october

We need to continue efforts to discourage China from being an aggressor as Russia has been. China is clearly stronger and more powerful than Russia, so this might be a losing battle, but Taiwan is our ally and we have a base there, so this is of grave concern. We must leverage the international community to bring China to the table to discuss this and stop potential invasion.

Poor Joe is way over his head with these ADM failers, lets's see we will back to 1973, Joe was the one who pushed to tax your SS at 50%, and again in 1983, he pushed to tax it at 85% of your SS check, GOOD OLD JOE (never made a good decision in his 50 years) other failers Afghanistan,  our southern border, Day ONE he goes to war with oil producers your GAS and FOOD prices (GOOD OLD JOE) the world knows he is a WEAK, American is not safe because of the Biden ADM how the HELL did people vote for this FOOL, GOOD LUCK....

Taiwan must join NATO

This needs to be stopped.

They are the next Ukraine and China is keeping clear tabs on what is happening in Ukraine. China needs us and the Europeans more than it needs Russia so it is probably pretty fearful of what we, and a unified EU could do to its economy.

Taiwan has been a US partner in the area, and we shoudl provide all support we can including Naval and Air presense to assist in controlling threats.

War is when completely innocent people die for the interests of others.

https://www.mycause.com.au/page/283105/help-victims-in-ukraine

China has, and is watching the response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine very closely. They are assessing how strong and united the world's democracies as well as the UN response is. It is imperative that  Russia's aggression against Ukraine be stopped whatever the cost. If the cost is not willing to be paid now the cost to democracy and freedom later on could be catastrophic. This is close to a replay of the Third Reich"s aggression during the 1930's where, instead of the League of Nations and the European democracies standing up to Hitler they showed weakness and allowed him to extend German control over territories until it led to a world war.

History does repeat itself. We need to ensure it does not happen with Russian aggression to be allowed to continue unchecked.

P.S. The UN needs to step up and do it's job - remove Russia from the Security Council and any other UN bodies and assist in joining the coalition.

@John: Agree with you that Xi is wiser that Putin and, "knows how it's bread is buttered" but China is up to something. The question is what? 
1) China been harassing Taiwan by flying in the Taiwanese air defense zone though some of it might be due to both countries having overlapping air defense zones and Taiwan doesn't report on incursions in their country's airspace but instead reports on a defense zone some of which is actually over Chinese territory. 
2) Chinese regulators held an emergency meeting with domestic and foreign banks to discuss how they could protect China's overseas assets from U.S.-led sanctions similar to those imposed on Russia after its invasion of Ukraine.

 3) Or it could be the competition over Taiwans chip development & production that both China & the US want to control by attracting Taiwanese engineers to work for them.

The US and China are in a recruitment battle for Taiwanese semiconductor talent to accelerate plans to ramp up domestic chip capacity, according to analysts and industry insiders.

William Hunt, an analyst at Georgetown’s Center for Security and Emerging Technology (CSET), said the Creating Helpful Incentives to Produce Semiconductors (CHIPS) for America Act will generate demand for skilled foundry workers that may be hard to find in the US, making it necessary to extend the search to Taiwan and South Korea and recommends the US create special visas for high-skilled workers with significant experience in semiconductor manufacturing and engineering to reduce barriers to immigration for workers with skills needed for US national security

https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-war/article/3171571/us-china-tech-war-will-taiwan-chip-engineers-be-key-success-race-tech

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/taiwan-china-chips/

 https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-discusses-protecting-assets-us-sanctions-with-banks-ft-2022-05-01/

 https://www.causes.com/comments/4615

China has plans to forcibly include Taiwan with the mainland and extinguish its democracy. Will we intervene? How and when are key questions to be answered. The ongoing Ukraine conflict complicates the answer but does not preclude a debate. It will be difficult to avoid escalation of any conflict over Taiwan as China has adopted the One China doctrine and therefore considers Taiwan as its own territory.

Time for some well-thought thru diplomacy that avoids the consequences of open military conflict and a march to WWIII. Any ideas out there?

2000 Mules!!

I am beyond pissed off! We all knew that this election was stolen and our gut feelings were spot on! 

Now any of you Leftist can say whatever the Hell you want about The Big Lie, conspiracy theory, Republicans trying to overthrow democracy on 1/6. The truth is, that democracy was already stolen before 1/6, by the Democrats. 

You call yourselves American and spew all this BS about "democracy?!" If you really believed in Democracy, you would be furious about this as well. No matter what Party committed this crime, we should all be angry. We should want all of these people to be prosecuted and sent to prison. Those in office that had a hand in this should be thrown out of office, prosecuted, and sent to prison. That includes all of the Republicans who KNEW this was happening and DID NOTHING! Those like, Mitch McConnell, that hates Trump and would have rather seen a corrupt sellout as President than Trump. 

@Frank: It doesn't matter who created this film! What matters is the evidence he presented, that cannot be disputed, by video and data, provided by the state governments! You can call him anything you want to call him. But the facts don't change. The mere fact that you are trying so damn hard to tarnish this man's reputation and come up with all of these excuses, tells us just what kind of person you are and that you know as well what happened here. Your activist mentality makes me question if you know a little too well what happened in the 2020 election. 

For those of you on here that still REALLY believe in a true and fair elections, I hope you write, email, and call your state reps, and light their arses up about this. Insist that they DO SOMETHING, as soon as our Party takes back control, to get an investigation into this, and stop it! Prosecute these treasonous POS! If we don't, our country is no longer free. Our elections are nothing but a farce!

1. Make drop boxes illegal

2. No more private or non-profit money going into our elections.

3. Voter rolls must be cleaned up yearly.

4. Make ballot harvesting illegal.

5. Make sending out ballots to every registered voter illegal. Only those with a verified and legitatmate reason can request a ballot in the mail.

6. Proof of ID for any vote cast.

7. Signatures must be verified on every ballot. 

8. Only citizens of that county and state are allowed to have any control over our elections. NOT Mark Zuckerberg!

9. Voting day is one day. Requested ballots must be by the day of the election and by a certain time. If not, they are not counted. 

10. Election Results should be given the night of the election. NOT DAYS OR WEEKS LATER.

11. Anyone caught trying to commit election fraud, should be given a mandatory sentence, determined by the state, in prison. 

12. There should be poll watchers from BOTH parties, at all times. Anyone trying to bully, intimidate, or force out the other parties poll watchers, should be arrested immediately for election interference. 

THIS SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN AGAIN BY EITHER PARTY! 

Wtf is going on that these adults that are suppose to be in charge can't act like adults. It's time to make them grab their ankles and spank their asses live on tv, till they cry. Maybe public humiliation with give them then the attitude adjustment they obviously need. 

I don't trust this administration on china and we are probably dealing with the same policy as the Obama administration 

This administration is hell bent on WAR! I don't see how any of us will survive the next 3 years!  Please please please vote out these characters!! Enough is enough! 

I don't think the Chinese are as big of a group of idiots as the Russians in the end China knows how it's bread is buttered, if it doesn't have trade with America it doesn't have much of anything. Or does it want to see the United States become more heavily Involved in manufacturing which is basically all the China does. As for Russia it's nothing but a third right nation with a little squinty eyed dictator in charge. The page is turned on Russia it will now become a mere shadow of what it was or could have been. Russia will sink into financial insecurity for decades to come. All because of the idiot Putin.

So it seems we celebrate all minority groups and LGBTQ, but @causes, at least not yet, has mentioned Mother's Day. I know in the Left's world, mothers no longer exist. We are now just "birthing persons." But for all of you sane individuals out there, I would like to wish you a very HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY!!! 

Those of you women that have sacrificed, loved, and supported your children deserve to be honored today. No one can erase you or replace you. 💜💜💜

Yes, i;;m concerned when any country uses aggression just to enhance their dictators' whims.  These agressive acts cannot go unanswered as the only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to them and that includes both foreign and domestic bullies who use their positions to impose their will on the public (such as the Republicans in Congress and as state governors).

How hard would it be for China to invade Taiwan?
-Project Force

-Al Aljazeera.com
https://youtu.be/qaYQNyJlNFk

A good overview of what an invasion of Taiwan would look like. 

How hard would it be for China to invade Taiwan? | Project Force

When Russian forces went into Ukraine, concern grew in Taiwan that an attack by China could be next...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaYQNyJlNFk